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Old 02-16-2011, 08:59 AM   #11
Ben Kissam
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

I'm right around where you are in all aspects. I'm 19, 189 and although I'm no longer fat I'm trying to lean out more so I can get the body I really want.

I don't crossfit very much (you can find what I do in my blog), but a lot of heavy lifting and running because I am an ultra runner. My stats are 315 squat, 405 deadlift, 145 press, 215 power clean, etc. and I've eaten paleo on and off for the last year. I've cleaned my diet up a lot but I'm now trying something new where I eat in more of a "time window". For my schedule, it so happens that the easiest way is to eat all the food I can before 5-6pm (when I usually have work). I've only been going for 3 days but I've set PRs in barbell lifts each day and I haven't felt like crap just yet. As long as you eat enough it may help you lean out. I'll let you know if I see any results from it as time goes on.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:37 AM   #12
Daniel LeGrand
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

@Eric:
I was recently commissioned in the Marines but don't report to TBS until OCT (common situation for most newly-commissioned LTs at the moment). One of the reasons I would like to lean down is because technically I am "overweight" for my height. At 5' 11", my max allowed weight is 197# (as of OCS summer 2009). I'm currently about 200#. I almost got taped at OCS, although it would be a decent stretch to say I was/am fat by any means. My PFTs at the time where 285-291 (the run was my only struggle) and I was one of the few who had and kept the 20 dead-hang PUs for the entire OCS time and I've never struggled at any of the PT we've had. I'm just a bigger guy than most of the others (only had about 2-3 who weighed more than me in our platoon). So that's one of the reasons I would like to lean down a bit. Secondary to that is that it is a personal goal I have had for a while but have had some difficulty achieving. And I want to accomplish my goal.

Quote:
But if you're still determined to lean out, you should cut some of the fruit and all the excess calories you seem to be getting from easy fat sources. You'll have to create a slight caloric deficit to get leaner.
I understand the principle here, but my problem is with the details. I understand I need a calorie deficit to lose weight. Currently my fat intake is a few TSPs of olive oil or TSPs of almond butter (5-6 TSPs a day of either one, not both). Just to clarify, would you recommend cutting that back to something like 3-4 TSPs a day? I appreciate your advice; I've found it to be very helpful.

@Katherine:
Currently I'm working a desk job for the next several months before I report to TBS for the Marines. I go to a CF gym pretty much every day. However, having a desk job means I do a lot of sitting for most of the day. My CF gym does more metcon WODs than strength so far, so I'm thinking about actually adding in some strength WODs on my own. As it warms up a bit here in VA (been freezing lately) I also do some running, as in 10-15 miles a week. Most of my "cardio" comes from my CF WODs, though. I just run mostly for my PFTs in the Marines. I would probably describe my activity level as moderate to slightly high. Lots of sitting time throughout the day but I also hit my WODs pretty hard. I hope that gives some clarifications.

@Larry:
I currently am following a paleo/zone prescription at 17 blocks. I WAM the food as per the zone. I don't know my exact calorie intake at the moment; I was using the block prescriptions as my measurement instead of calories. However, you raise a good point. If I don't know how much I'm putting in my body right now, it's difficult to know how to accomplish my goal.

@Zach:
I've checked out the leangains and it looks interesting. Is it advisable to cut out the fats from the nuts/seeds/oils? It seems like that would work, but I was wondering if that's something I would need to do to maintain it as well. Once I reach my BF goal and I return to a more "normal" paleo diet, would I be able to add the nuts/oils back in? Or is this something that would need to be kept long-term in order to maintain? I'm just curious because it sounds like it would work but I just don't know enough about it. Thanks for the advice, though; those are definitely the kinds of specific points I was looking for.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:57 AM   #13
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

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Originally Posted by Daniel LeGrand View Post
@Larry:
I currently am following a paleo/zone prescription at 17 blocks. I WAM the food as per the zone. I don't know my exact calorie intake at the moment; I was using the block prescriptions as my measurement instead of calories. However, you raise a good point. If I don't know how much I'm putting in my body right now, it's difficult to know how to accomplish my goal.
If your active or doing anything like CF workouts 4 times a week or so I would say you are eating too few cals and your body is stubbornly holding on to unwanted bodyfat.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:58 AM   #14
Ron Murray
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

this is what worked for me.

I was stuck at the 200-205 range for such a long time and just could not break the barrier. I decided to take my diet to formula and ended up cutting fruits, nuts, all dairy (was having a few cups of coffer a week with heavy cream) from my diet and then added post workout yam + meat source as well as adding coconut manna (butter), coconut oil and shaved coconut as one of my primary sources of fat intake. I began to see nearly immediate decrease in BW, within a week I was dropping. I made it down to 187, my lifts saw some decreases so I upped my protein intake to roughly 300g/daily and also upped my fat intake a bit.

I also forced myself to get more sleep, I added 5000iu's of d3 and upped my fishoil to 4tbsp daily.

now at 195-198 BW I maintain it with 250+ grams of protein, >30g of carbs and roughly 150g of fat on a daily basis.

that's me.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:17 AM   #15
Daniel LeGrand
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

@Ron:
That sounds exactly like the same situation I'm currently in. So you're saying that you pretty much cut out all carbs from your diet? Does that include veggies besides the post-workout yam? When you cut out the nuts you're saying you used coconut oil as your fat source? Is this because the nuts have some carbs in them as well, or what's the rational behind removing the nuts?

When you dropped weight and then added it back on, did you keep a lower BF % or did you return to your previous BF % levels?

During your weight-loss stage it looks like you were roughly eating about 250g of protein or so, but do you know the rough estimate of carbs and fat you were eating, or is it roughly the same as the numbers you posted for your maintainance? I know it's different for each person, but you seem pretty similar to my own composition.

Thanks for the post!
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:37 AM   #16
Christie Warner
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

You may not like this, but I'd have a cheat day OR at least have a day or two where you eat MORE of the good stuff. Like, 500 calories more than your usual caloric intake (at least). You need to buck up your metabolism a couple times a week so it doesn't do the same thing every single day. Also, try a sprint circuit once a week. MORE REST/SLEEP.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:46 AM   #17
Ron Murray
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

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Originally Posted by Daniel LeGrand View Post
So you're saying that you pretty much cut out all carbs from your diet? Does that include veggies besides the post-workout yam?
I did cut the carbs quite a bit as I was eating upwards of probably 80-90 a day beforehand. I primarily stuck to veggies as my carbs source outside of the fats. I ate/eat a lot of cabbage/lettuce/cauliflower/sprouts. The post workout yam is usually pretty tiny 3-5oz and that is the most dense load of carbs I take in. I also don't eat the yam after EVERY workout - MAYBE 3-4 workouts a week depending on my cycle.


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Originally Posted by Daniel LeGrand View Post
When you cut out the nuts you're saying you used coconut oil as your fat source? Is this because the nuts have some carbs in them as well, or what's the rational behind removing the nuts?
I had done a lot of reading and listening to different podcasts and it seemed like coconut was being widely considered a better alternative to nuts as a fat source, delving into short-chain vs. medium-chain triglycerides and other mind-numbing details. I am reluctant to say "cleaner" or "better" but ultimately that is the rationale.

I also tended to get carried away with nuts. Where as I seem to fill up much faster or feel more satisfied with coconut manna or shavings vs. nuts.

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Originally Posted by Daniel LeGrand View Post
When you dropped weight and then added it back on, did you keep a lower BF % or did you return to your previous BF % levels?
the BF from what I can tell only bumped up a negligible amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel LeGrand View Post
During your weight-loss stage it looks like you were roughly eating about 250g of protein or so, but do you know the rough estimate of carbs and fat you were eating, or is it roughly the same as the numbers you posted for your maintainance? I know it's different for each person, but you seem pretty similar to my own composition.
during the majority of the loss my protein was actually upwards of 275g on average, up to even 300 for many stretches. My carbs varied, but my goal was >50/day and I would only go over if it was veggies/fat source. A lot of people do cheat days or cheat meals, I personally do not cheat...ever, but I do occasionally turn to upped fat intake as a "cheat". Some days my body is so beat up I just feel like I need more fat so, that seems to work for me. My fat intake was typically around 50g-60g or less (this is w/o the inclusion of my fish-oil and the saturated fat content of my protein sources.)

hopefully that makes sense, I am multi-tasking here .
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Last edited by Ron Murray; 02-16-2011 at 10:55 AM..
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:53 AM   #18
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Murray View Post
during the majority of the loss my protein was actually upwards of 275g on average, up to even 300 for many stretches. My carbs varied, but my goal was >50/day and I would only go over if it was veggies/fat source. A lot of people do cheat days or cheat meals, I personally do not cheat...ever, but I do occasionally turn to upped fat intake as a "cheat". Some days my body is so beat up I just feel like I need more fat so, that seems to work for me. My fat intake was typically around 50g-60g or less (this is w/o the inclusion of my fish-oil and the saturated fat content of my protein sources.)
Let's see...
300g protein at 4 calories per gram = 1200 calories
50g carbs at 4 calories per gram = 200 calories
60g fat at 9 calories per gram = 540 calories
For a grand total of 1940 calories, plus whatever fat was in your protein sources.

Nope, it's not at all surprising that you lost weight.

Katherine
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:08 AM   #19
Zach S
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

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Originally Posted by Daniel LeGrand View Post
@Zach:
I've checked out the leangains and it looks interesting. Is it advisable to cut out the fats from the nuts/seeds/oils? It seems like that would work, but I was wondering if that's something I would need to do to maintain it as well. Once I reach my BF goal and I return to a more "normal" paleo diet, would I be able to add the nuts/oils back in? Or is this something that would need to be kept long-term in order to maintain? I'm just curious because it sounds like it would work but I just don't know enough about it. Thanks for the advice, though; those are definitely the kinds of specific points I was looking for.
Nuts and seeds have carbs and are really high in calories so it makes it harder to make sure you are in a deficit. Oils are high in calories, again harder to keep track. If you are really serious about getting lean you will just have to forgo some foods and keep it basic. Once you get to your ideal bodyweight then you can reintroduce nuts, fruits, etc.

As long as you are getting decent sleep, dont overdo the workouts (3 sessions max a week), keep your foods to meats, eggs, cheese, butter/lard/ghee and veggies with tubers being post workout carbs, this approach will work wonders for stripping fat while preserving muscle.

If you have more questions about specifics, pm me. I also highly suggest you read up on leangains.com (WFS), and Paleonu.com (WFS).
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:14 AM   #20
Ron Murray
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Re: Trying to lean down but at a standstill...

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Let's see...
300g protein at 4 calories per gram = 1200 calories
50g carbs at 4 calories per gram = 200 calories
60g fat at 9 calories per gram = 540 calories
For a grand total of 1940 calories, plus whatever fat was in your protein sources.

Nope, it's not at all surprising that you lost weight.

Katherine
well, I might not have been very clear I guess as I was trying to go about it in broad strokes...here is a "typical" day

random day from food log (WFS)
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