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Old 09-13-2009, 11:25 AM   #1
Jesse Kodadek
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Snatch and C+J

Kind of a rough day at the gym. DT earlier this week wore me out and I failed to snatch 70. My PR is 76 and I was hitting 75 last week. Bodyweight is around 78.

It's pretty obvious my right shoulder is the culprit in this miss, as it usually is. It also looks like I could spread my knees more in the setup and keep my back a little straighter on the first pull.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpxgqH4aJ60 wfs

And then there's this hideous thing. Making an 87.5 c+j (PR is 97 a few weeks ago). I have a problem with my right shoulder flexibility. I can catch a clean ok most of the time (almost dropped it here) but when I set up for the jerk it's 100% on my left shoulder...so my right elbow drops way down so it's ready to catch the jerk faster...I guess. This is the first time I've ever seen video of myself lifting and it's giving me a lot to think about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvu76IkXS4 wfs
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:19 PM   #2
Michael Pilhofer
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Re: Snatch and C+J

Hey Jesse,

Congrats on the LIFTS!!

Right off the bat I notice that on both lifts your moving "Forward" for your landing position. Take a look at where you feet start and where they end. Both times you actually move forward to receive the bar.

You are looking to receive that bar a little back of your start position.

Get those shoulders back behind your heels as you reach extension and start to pull under and this should help.

All the best
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:52 PM   #3
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Snatch and C+J

On the snatch you are swinging the bar forward. You jump forward, but it's still not enough to catch up to the bar which is even further out in front.

Take a video from the side angle and watch the bar path. See if it gets shoved forward by the hips.

I would say you need to get the torso more vertical by the time you get to the explosive phase of the second pull.
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:58 PM   #4
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Snatch and C+J

On the clean you're trying to muscle the bar up. There's an early arm bend and the elbows are slow to come around. You're trying to pull the bar up even higher when you should already be moving under the bar.

Use more hips to drive the bar up, use the arms less.

What's going on with your shoulders on the jerk? Do you have some trauma in one of your shoulders? The rack position for the left is much more like what the right should look like.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:46 PM   #5
Jesse Kodadek
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Re: Snatch and C+J

Thanks for the tips so far.

I blew up my right shoulder skiing a few years ago and it has never been the same. I think the discrepancy in my elbow position during the jerk has a lot to do with the fact that since I am pushing off my left shoulder, I just let my right arm drop down to where it will be in the most straightforward position to catch the jerk.

Obviously, I am going to work hard on this issue now that I have seen how bad it looks.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:33 PM   #6
Andrew Wilson
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Re: Snatch and C+J

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Kodadek View Post
Thanks for the tips so far.

I blew up my right shoulder skiing a few years ago and it has never been the same. I think the discrepancy in my elbow position during the jerk has a lot to do with the fact that since I am pushing off my left shoulder, I just let my right arm drop down to where it will be in the most straightforward position to catch the jerk.

Obviously, I am going to work hard on this issue now that I have seen how bad it looks.
How are you with overhead squats?
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:30 AM   #7
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: Snatch and C+J

Forget overhead squats. Just work on the start - don't lift your hips up that much when you pulse to begin the first pull. If you settle into an unrealistic position for the start, then when you actually begin the lift of course your hips will rise. That causes you to miss the lift forward.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:42 PM   #8
Jesse Kodadek
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Re: Snatch and C+J

I just got a PM from Lou and figured others might be interested so I'll just post his PM (hope that's OK, Lou) and my responses in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PM from Lou Cabales
i have mad respect for you that rack and clean was ugly

but you are iron man ing it through

Thanks. My wrist was extra sore from DT two days prior. High rep hang cleans are pretty much the worst thing I have found for my wrist/shoulder and that may have been the last time I do DT.

I think my wrist soreness had a lot to do with the ugliness of the clean catch. I can usually rack it just fine. It just hurt so my fingers slipped off. But I definitely always jerk off just one shoulder.


MAD RESPECT!!!!!


can you tell me the nature of you shoulder injury? eg medical diagnosis?

what was done to rehab it?

how long since injury?

10 years ago I had an enormous wreck skiing and dislocated that shoulder and had a greater tuberosity fracture. Rx was 2 months immobilization and then extensive PT. I was in school at the time and we have a PT program here so I was able to go 3x/week for 2+ months. I was kayaking seriously in about 4.5 months.

is there any reason (physically) you cant get shoulder to loosen up/stretch out?

It works fine for kayaking at a reasonably high level. I also build things, bike, ski, etc so it never really limited me in anything until I found the clean...so for ten years I just didn't worry about it. The only thing I ever noticed was that I can't throw well, and I used to play a lot of baseball when I was younger, so this was discouraging but I never did anything about it.

what is MD prognosis?

Don't ski like an idiot???

im in nursing school and i find these thing very interesting

ok with out any history here is what im thinking

with the amount of stregnth you have there is no reason that you shouldnt have the flexibility in that shoulder.

have you been working on flexibility on that shoulder? if so what hae you been doing? how long?

It took me about 8 months of crossfit to get proper clean/front squat rack. And when I say proper, I mean 2 or 3 fingers. I then quit crossfit and o-lifted 3x a week for about two months (zero assistance work, I'd do muscleups, deadlifts, and weighted chins/dips sometimes but never snatch balances or anything like that) where my snatch went from 56 to 76 and my c+j went from 85 to 97 and I feel like I should be at like 85/115. I just went back to crossfit for scheduling/work reasons but I am already scheming how to get back to the oly gym 3x/week again. These videos are from Crossfit Missoula where the owner is a competitive oly and programs lots of oly stuff.

cause if you get it back i think you'd be a beast of a oly lifter.

i'm going to wait to comment on shoulder rehab stretching etc until I hear back on above ?'s. (or even if your interested) also im interestd to see what steven low has to say re you shoulder.

I'd love to hear ideas

perhaps a post in injuries.

Last edited by Jesse Kodadek : 09-14-2009 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:03 PM   #9
Peter Terry Haas
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Re: Snatch and C+J

Great work so far Jesse. You definitely look like you can handle more weight if you clean up your technique some.

Here's what I see going wrong w/ the snatch as you come off of the floor. Your mistake at the start makes you play catchup w/ the rest of the lift.
1. Hips rise faster than the chest off of the ground.
2. Since your chest is so low and your hips so far from the bar, when you go to jump your hips have to chase the bar and end up banging it forward, that combo'd w/......
3. Not hitting full extension at the top of your 2nd pull makes the bar really go forward(I think the bar comes straight off of your thighs and goes overhead instead of creasing your abdomen first, but the angle is tough).
4. Since the bar is traveling forward you jump forward and...
5. Catch the bar in front of you, which combined w/ one arm being too far forward and one being too far back makes you miss.

Here's how I'd tell you to fix it:
1. Get good at snatch balances to make sure your receiving position is solid.
2. 2-position snatches (mid-thigh, floor), making sure to think about hitting yourself in the belt buckle everytime you snatch

Head on over to Perforance Menu for vids of all those exercises. There's info on the start there too if you have more questions about that.

Also, I'm going to go out on a limb a bit and say you are muscleing it a bit too much on the jump and are extending too much/are too slow at the top of your jump. This is something I've been working on in my head lately. Hitting your 2nd pull should be more like a snapped punch and less like a long grinding high pull. As soon as you crease your abdomen w/ the bar you should be getting underneath the bar. If you slo-mo your vid you can see how high you are trying to pull the bar w/ your upper body while being on your toes, instead of already getting underneath the bar. Hit it and go.

Hope this helps. Good luck.
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Old 09-15-2009, 06:13 PM   #10
Jesse Kodadek
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Re: Snatch and C+J

Snatched 72.5 today and felt quite a bit better.

Here is a 70. I tried really hard to keep my *** down and I think it helped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goz93w4n4Ac wfs
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