CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-21-2008, 12:29 PM   #1
Brian Lawyer
Member Brian Lawyer is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dallas  TX
Posts: 564
Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Is it wierd that I feel stronger and more comfortable performing a hang clean or snatch then I do pulling from the floor?

I haven't actually tested this theory by maxing out on each to see which I can actually lift more on (hang vs. floor) but the movement just feels stronger.

One theory, although this could just be mental, is that the mainstream gym I workout at has those oxagonal weight plates. So when pulling from the floor I actully have to walk up to get tight with the bar against my shins versus having the ability to roll the bar right up to my shins. Again, that could just be a mental thing. I mean when guys are cleaning 300lbs are they able to roll the bar around when it is loaded.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 12:37 PM   #2
Gavin Harrison
Member Gavin Harrison is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Forest Hill  Maryland
Posts: 479
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Two things. You probably aren't in the same pulling position from the hang as you would be when pulling from the floor. Second, stretch reflex.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 12:47 PM   #3
Derek Maffett
Member Derek Maffett is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Castle Rock  WA
Posts: 3,544
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

No offense, but your form is almost undoubtedly bad. You should put something up in digital coaching.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 12:49 PM   #4
Brian Lawyer
Member Brian Lawyer is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dallas  TX
Posts: 564
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Harrison View Post
Two things. You probably aren't in the same pulling position from the hang as you would be when pulling from the floor. Second, stretch reflex.

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by the pulling position? Theoretically, shouldn't I be in the exact same pulling position once the bar clears my knees.

I think you are on to something with the stretch reflex because I start a hang clean from an upright position, push hips back similar to RDL, then jump/explode. Therefore I have that bounce going on versus starting from a dead stop. I don't know the exact terminology for that but it is like a bench press which starts at the top and ends at the top versus a Press that starts at the bottom.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 12:52 PM   #5
Brian Lawyer
Member Brian Lawyer is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dallas  TX
Posts: 564
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
No offense, but your form is almost undoubtedly bad. You should put something up in digital coaching.
Well I am offended. My form can't be that bad. I have worked out with a USAW certified O' Lifting coach twice in the last three weeks for over an hour each session. Purely doing Snatches, and C&J's. I haven't even attempted any 1 rep maxes because I have mainly been working on form and only doing triples. I am easily snatching 160lbs from the floor and C&J over 200lbs. I only weigh 187lbs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 01:44 PM   #6
Glenn Pendlay
Member Glenn Pendlay is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wichita falls  texas
Posts: 684
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Brian, a couple of things...

First, I see you are in Dallas. Did you go to the meet in Van Alstyne a couple of weeks ago? I loaded for most of the meet, I probably saw you lift.

Second thing, just because you have worked with a coach, it doesnt mean your form is good... of course it doesnt mean it is bad either! But, some people take literally years to get really effecient form... most can get things 90% right in a few weeks, but your average lifter who has been training/competing for several years is still working on better, more effecient technique.

Last thing is having better numbers from the hang. Usually, in my experience, this is related to not getting into the correct, or "best" position for the second pull as you pull the bar from the floor. It is undoubtedly harder to perfectly position for the second pull as you pull from the floor than if you go from the hang... of course if you are able to do it, you have the advantage of the bar already moving, thus a higher velocity can be attained (hopefully!).

Now, just because you are in this situation doesnt mean you are a bad lifter. One example of a very good lifter who was ALWAYS best from the hang is one of my guys Robert McAdams. His best lifts were a 160kg (352lb) snatch and a 190kg (419lb) clean and jerk at just over 200lbs of bodyweight, so he was obviously a good lifter. And Rob was just scary strong from the hang. One day I saw him do a set of 3 reps on the hang power snatch with 140kg, thats from the high hang, bar at the waist, just dip the knees a little and snap it up, and barely any knee bend to catch it. IF he could have done this weight from the floor for one rep (and Its debatable, not sure he could have) he would have had to bend his knees a LOT more to catch it. He just had a phenomenal pull from the Hang... and even Rob would tell you that he could always get into better position with the hang, never could hit the position perfectly when pulling from the floor.

Another example is Starikovich... he was a Russian who immigrated here and ended up making the 1996 Olympic team for the USA. His best snatch was I think 170kg, which was an American record for a while. He competed in the 108kg weight class, thats back before the weight class changes that happened when they let women into the Olympic games. I had heard many stories about how he could do tremendous weights from the boxes or from the hang. Like 180kg to 190kg snatches from either the box or hang. I tried to talk to him about this once, I was sitting next to him in the audience at a national competition, I think it was in St Joe, Missouri if I remember right. He wasnt in a talkative mood, but I did talk to someone else after that who had trained with him and who he apparently liked to talk to better than me, and they told me that the stories were true, that he could do around 20kg more from the hang than from the floor.

So I guess in general, as you get to be a better and better lifter, and hit your positions better, you SHOULD get more comfortable and stronger from the floor as compared to the hang. But, although this is the normal course of things, it is not always how it works, and if you continue to be stronger from the hang, you are in some pretty good company!

glenn
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 02:43 PM   #7
Brian Lawyer
Member Brian Lawyer is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dallas  TX
Posts: 564
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay View Post
First, I see you are in Dallas. Did you go to the meet in Van Alstyne a couple of weeks ago? I loaded for most of the meet, I probably saw you lift.

Second thing, just because you have worked with a coach, it doesnt mean your form is good... of course it doesnt mean it is bad either!
Awesome feedback Glen. I didn't go to that meet but I think the Coach I was working with took a couple guys from his gym to the meet. His name is Coach Richard Fleming from CrossFit Plano.

I am no where near competition form. I still have a long ways to go with my O'Lifting technique, or lack thereof. Consistency is my main problem right now. I have some beautiful lifts coupled with some downright ugly looking ones. I was just trying to make the point addressing Muffet's comment above that I am not some smuck in my garage trying to do O'Lifting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 03:42 PM   #8
Alex Bond
Member Alex Bond is offline
 
Alex Bond's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 163
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

I am another one of these "Better from the hang than floor" guys. Obviously, I have technique issues.

But really, I don't want to compete in Olympic lifting - I just want to be able to jump higher in the air. Is there that much of a benefit to learning good technique from the floor as opposed to just doing DL-hang clean combos?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 03:59 PM   #9
Glenn Pendlay
Member Glenn Pendlay is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wichita falls  texas
Posts: 684
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Alex,

Personally I think there is, but probably less of an advantage if you DL then hang clean EVERY REP. Most who do mostly lifts from the hang will DL the first rep, then go say 3 in a row without ever lowering the bar all the way down. At least most people that i have seen.

glenn
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 10:07 PM   #10
Derek Maffett
Member Derek Maffett is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Castle Rock  WA
Posts: 3,544
Re: Hang Cleans/Snatch Vs. From the Floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer View Post
I was just trying to make the point addressing Muffet's comment above that I am not some smuck in my garage trying to do O'Lifting.
Maffett, not Muffet.

You did mention octagonal plates (which generally would give the impression of a beginner). Regardless, two hours coaching in three weeks is not indicative of a great deal of experience with the Olympic lifts. Also, your lifts are not exactly elite level.

I would say that there is a fair chance that you're losing positioning/proper control of the bar when pulling from the floor. No, it does not mean that your form is terrible, but I think it's fair to say that most people are round about average... so you probably don't count as another one of Mr. Pendlay's examples.

Unless my math is wrong (which I suppose it is frequently enough), an acceleration applied over a greater amount of time will produce a greater velocity when t=third pull.

So I suppose you can consider yourself an exception or you can accept that you might be doing something wrong. Your choice.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
hang power cleans vs full squat cleans? David Michelson Exercises 3 04-16-2008 12:03 AM
Hang dumbell cleans Andrew Gray Workout of the Day 12 12-18-2007 10:18 PM
Hang rings from floor joists? Elliott Lum Equipment 2 01-30-2007 01:28 AM
DB snatch - pulling fast from the floor? Asaf Gil Exercises 2 09-14-2006 06:23 AM
Hang Cleans vs. Squat Cleans? Bryan Edge Exercises 1 01-12-2006 08:31 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.