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Old 05-16-2011, 09:26 PM   #31
Om Puri
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

I grew up vegetarian and can totally relate to your post. I had/have some of the exact same conundrums. I now eat some meat (I try to buy grass fed organic free range stuff but can't always afford it) and I also started drinking a pint of milk (PWO only). It took my stomach a couple weeks to get used to the milk but it's fine now. I think full fat milk is perfect PWO. I also usually squirt a tablespoon of chocolate syrup in it - my chocolate milk satiates me better than anything else PWO. Full disclosure: I don't do CF; I do 70'sbig S&C 4 times a week).

To achieve your goals of gaining weight I would recommend increasing eggs, lentils, coconut oil, peanut/almond butter, flax seeds, hemp seeds (throw seeds on salads, smoothies, oatmeal, etc.). Also sprouted breads, sprouted beans & sprouted mung are great. You can sprout beans & mung yourself. Easy & super healthy. Google or youtube it. Increase 250 calories a day as a start. I'm not a strength-a-holic like many on this site, but I think that someone at your weight will only benefit by gaining some weight/muscle. Just adding 10 -15 lb will do you wonders. Once you have more muscle mass you can focus a little more on conditioning & other goals such as endurance, etc.

For your goals of 6 hours of concentration I recommend meditation. Start 3 min a day. And like progressive weight training, add 1 min a day till you get to 15-20 min a day. Breathing exercises are a great way to start, check these out: yoga breathing
more yoga breathing
Both links are WFS

Cool drumming videos. Do you know the band 'Explosions in the Sky'? I think they have 2 drummers. They're from Texas & they rock!

PS - Instead of cake 4-5 times a week, eat real (full fat) ice cream with chopped almonds/walnuts. The fat in ice cream (and chopped nuts) is better than the refined white sugar & bread in cake! Best o luck!
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:01 AM   #32
Sheldon Kreger
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Meghan:

I did a search looking at the other vegetarian threads. People seem to have strong opinions AGAINST vegetarianism. I remember running into a story of a coach who refused to train vegetarians. Maybe people are being friendly on this thread because I'm agreeing with them hahahaha.

Chris:

I'm changing the diet primarily to create variety in my diet. It's really hard to have a high protein, high fat vegetarian/vegan at a low cost. There are only a handful of things I can afford to eat enough of. I also posted my goals a bit earlier in this thread.

Om:

Great to hear from you.

I'm going to start sprowting early next month. I think it's a great idea. Actually, the person who introduced me to CF is an avid sprowter.

As far as milk/ice cream, it doesn't sit well with me. I might try to work it in eventually, but for now I'm going to just focus on meat. I can see it's a great way to add calories, though.

I practice Transcendental Meditation very regularly (30 min+ twice daily). The routine also includes about 10 min of yoga and 5 min of alternate nostril breathing (I skip the breathing usually - I'll try throwing it back in). It's an effortless technique, not concentration oriented. I certainly plan to learn some concentration or mindfulness meditation techniques, but my friends really recommend working with an instructor at first. Meditation in groups is a very different sensation.

Rebecca:

I read through the links you sent me. Great stuff! Overall, I think there are still plenty of ethical reasons to avoid CAFO products, but that vegetarian diets can be dangerous when not done correctly.

I experience a lot of the same problems as the vegan man who was interviewed in your link. The 30 bananas-a-day people are the kind of ideological zealots that bother me most. Not only is their diet probably dangerous, they give healthy vegetarians a bad reputation.

I lived in a whole community of people following a poor vegetarian diet. They all had EXTREME problems with stress. For many of them, they had been doing it for so many decades that they really couldn't cope with reality effectively (anyone reading this can PM me for more info).

I've also been susceptible to ups/downs in energy and mood, but that goes away very quickly when my diet is healthy. I also had bad teeth until I started eating 2-3 times as many healthy vegetarian calories as I was before (last year).

Anyway, that article was AWESOME.

-sheldon
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:17 PM   #33
Charles Fey
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Pesco-pollo here, for many of the same reasons and a few others, mostly energy-economy focused. Eating meat for me was mostly a social thing, because like you I don't enjoy the idea of evangelizing everywhere. If it was already bought and cooked there was little point in protesting, whereas my personal purchasing decisions were entirely different at restaurants or in the grocery store.

What I found was that I could get chicken and fish from local folks that had ethically sourced the food. Eating that was a good way to get some of those animal proteins and fats into the diet. Recently, I even discovered a place I could get beef that was legitimately grass-fed and cared for properly. Utilizing these sources, I've been able to start introducing meat sparingly back into my diet.

If you want to eat meat, you can find it from producers that are practicing sustainability. My only concern is that you're college-aged, and that gets really expensive / time-consuming unless you're lucky enough to 1. have local farms 2. are able to verify their practices. You may have to compromise those ethics in the short run to bring those nutritional elements into your diet, just as a matter of practicality. But the good news is that in most areas, you will be able to find ethical food within a 30-45 minute drive. It's difficult to tell what your situation is, so that decision is yours.

I applaud your attempts to be both healthy and environmentally conscious, and will be joining you in the "psuedo-vegetarian crossfitters" demographic. Lean, mean, and green!
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:23 PM   #34
Jared Ashley
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon Kreger View Post
Questions for meat advocates

1. How do you respond to the argument that meat and dairy is bad for your digestive system?

Watch this before you get all excited:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMy8Aq12Ogs

2. What kind of meat should I be eating at first? What kinds of meat won't make me sick?

3. When do you eat meat?

4. Any other good reasons I should eat meat?

-sheldon
1) To dairy: yep, it probably is. the prevalence of lactose intolerance, especially among non-whites, is so high that it can't be ignored. Truth is a diet without dairy is probably healthier than one with dairy. that said, you can pry my pepperjack cheese from my cold, dead fingers.

To meat: I respond that the statement is absolutely false. Nitrates, preservatives, ect, sure. The meat itself? Nonsense. It just isn't true. Every reputable, balanced nutrition source I've seen agrees. I have nothing against vegetarians/vegans, but this particular claim is misinformation. Period.

2) most people seem to tolerate fish and poultry better. Although most vegetarian/vegan folks I know personally don't have problems with GI tolerance, it's more just the taste isn't familiar.

3) Whenever I feel like it. almost always at dinner, often at lunch, rarely at breakfast, although I have eggs for breakfast a lot.

4) B-12 and other B-vitamins, bioavailable iron, quality protein, ect. Plus, it's delicious.
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Old 05-21-2011, 06:42 PM   #35
Sheldon Kreger
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Thanks again to everybody for your input. It has been extremely helpful, and I hope that somebody will find my posts here useful, too.

Updates/Results Week I

I have eaten primarily grilled or baked chicken once or twice a day. Also, some turkey breast. For the first few days, I started small (about 8 oz). I also had a sandwich late this week with turkey, ham, and bacon. Also, a chicken burrito. Other than that, I have eaten the meat by itself (about 3 hrs before/after other food).

I haven't had any beef, lamb, or other red meat other than a small amount of bacon and ham.

Struggles

Day 2 I suffered mild constipation, which I cleared up by eating vegetarian that day. This also happened again during day 8 or 9, when I ate two meat-only meals in one day (baked chicken breast). Also, I get bloating/gas if I combine meat with other foods. Really, not too big of a deal.

I don't like the taste of any of the meat I've eaten. Chicken doesn't bother me, but the turkey and especially pork products taste absolutely terrible. I have not developed any appetite for meat. I never feel like, "Wow, I can't wait to eat this delicious chicken!" . . . it's more like, "I can't believe I'm doing this. I hope I don't get sick. This tastes bad. I sure hope I gain weight!"

What has helped - tips for others

Eating meat alone (3 hours before/after other food) supports good digestion, prevents constipation and gas. Definitely avoid heavy carbs like potatoes, and also fruit - otherwise you are begging for trouble.

I've doubled my chlorella and reishi mushroom intake to 20 grams and 2 grams, respectively. Again - digestion. Sometimes I'll eat .5 gram reishi before and after a meat meal.

Eating several tablespoons of oil (I've used coconut) before/after meat also helps with digestion.

Several tablespoons of psyllium husk (high fiber) mixed in water before bed is also helpful, but doesn't solve the problem alone.

Goals for the next week

Tomorrow I'm having steak with my father. That will let me see how red meat sits.

I might experiment with adding vegetables when I eat meat. I've done this a few times, and it has always led to gas/bloating. I'm going to see if I can find something that works.

How I Feel (Results)

By far, the most difficult part of this is the emotional aspect. It's very hard for me to eat meat. It still makes me feel sad/guilty. I have considered giving up this experiment a few times, but I'm sticking with it so far. I've had to eat strictly vegetarian for a few days because it was really tearing me apart morally. This seems to be common "problem" for people moving back into omnivorous diets. I really don't think I will ever eat any pork product ever again - but chicken isn't much better (from my perspective), and I've been eating lots of that because it is somewhat lean and widely available.

There has been no noticeable difference in my energy levels.

My mind is equally clear and I can focus just as well, unless I am constipated.

Overall, I feel "heavier" and don't get hungry as often. Meals with meat burn more slowly and leave me feeling more satiated but no more full. So, overall I have been eating less - although I am trying my best to eat as much as possible.

I am experiencing a stuffy and runny nose, and sneezing. I have been told by doctors in the past that this was due largely to food allergies. However, it may be springtime allergies (although I have not had them in several years). So, it's hard to say, but it's very suspicious because these symptoms appeared literally the day after I started eating meat again.


Foot odor has returned - not bad, but it's there. I had very, very little foot odor on my previous diet, and practically no body odor. The body odor has returned, but it's not pungent. I can still get away without wearing deodorant - even during workouts. I suspect that as my body adjusts, this problem will go away.

Overall, I am not impressed with what has happened, but it is still way too early to make a judgment.

-sheldon
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:30 PM   #36
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Sounds like your mind is made up to me.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:30 AM   #37
Sheldon Kreger
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

I had some beef (steak) that my grandparents raised - free range, organic stuff. It tasted great and I didn't feel bad about eating it!!!



VICTORY

Now I just have to find a good local supplier . . . probably buy a big bulk purchase.

-sheldon
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:17 AM   #38
Rebecca Roth
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon Kreger View Post
I had some beef (steak) that my grandparents raised - free range, organic stuff. It tasted great and I didn't feel bad about eating it!!!



VICTORY

Now I just have to find a good local supplier . . . probably buy a big bulk purchase.

-sheldon
You might look into US Wellness (http://www.grasslandbeef.com wfs), they aren't local for you, but they are local for me and they do ship and supply high quality meat throughout the country (they are the supplier for NY's famous all grass fed burger joint BRGR). If you are willing to buy and store in somewhat large quantities (though for anyone doing CF, 7+ lbs should hardly last a week, if that) it is probably worth a look.
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Last edited by Rebecca Roth : 05-23-2011 at 09:18 AM. Reason: added link
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:31 PM   #39
Sheldon Kreger
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Results Week II

Quick Summary:

I added red meats this week (beef, pork, even some lamb). Overall I feel the same, but hungry less often and feel more satiated after meals. I can eat large meat serving per day without experiencing constipation (for example, a large steak, or unlimited amounts of white meat). Multiple meat meals -> mild constipation. I'm pretty sure I've gained weight (update tomorrow after I check to see). Note that I am not measuring or being picky about my meat, just trying things out as they sound good and taking things gradually.

Detailed Summary

I am super-excited because I had the opportunity to go to my first CF box (CrossFit Sonoma County). Again, I've been CF'ng since early March, just scaling back mainpage workouts because there are no boxes where I live. The trainers at Sonoma County CF were fantastic. Everybody I met was very helpful and down-to-earth. I feel like I would become very good friends if I spent more time with them. I spent two days with them, and attended a 3+ hour nutrition seminar, where I learned about Paleo and Zone.

I also got to work with a box in Syracuse, UT (Letrono CF). I caught them just as they pushed their clients out the door, as the owners were warming up for their workout. They invited me to jump in. They pushed me through the hardest workout of my life!

Anyway - the heavy workouts increased my appetite, which was great.

The only change in energy level I noticed was when I skipped breakfast before a morning workout. This usually destroys me - like I'm gonna pass out and I need to sit down for awhile before I try to walk home. But, this week, the large, meaty dinner I had the night before seemed to hold me over the next morning (although I did feel irregular).

Struggles

I was travelling, so quality meat was hard to come by. Sitting in a car all day does not promote good digestion.

I saw a trailer full of pigs on the highway and it was upsetting. Driving behind it for 30 seconds made our whole car smell like . . . . bleh. Overall, I don't feel as guilty about eating meat as I did last week, but I will insist on local grassfed stuff if I decide to stick with this after my goal end date (first week of August).

What Has Helped / Tips for Others

Heavy workouts make me feel awesome!

Water!

Psyllium husk before bed for added fiber.

Goals for next week

(going to bed . . . will finish tomorrow)

-sheldon
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:31 PM   #40
Sheldon Kreger
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Re: 7 Year Vegetarian - Meat Eating Experiment

Results Weeks IV - V

Quick Summary

DISASTER

ENDLESS DISCOMFORT

NO ADDITIONAL WEIGHT GAIN

BODY ODOR IS DISGUSTING

I WANT VEGETARIAN FOOD

(It's really not that bad, I'm just used to feeling really, really good all the time, and this is throwing off my groove)

Detailed Summary

I really feel like my body would have adapted by now. I have tried all kinds of things - eating whatever I want, eating extremely clean, eating meat alone, drinking lots of water, organic meats, lean meats, fried meats, BBQ meats, and so on - nothing seems to be tolerable. Irregularity only lasts a day or two, but it makes me feel terrible and lose my appetite. I almost always feel like I'm forcing it down and meat is rarely appealing at all.

This isn't an ethical concern, either - I have access to very high quality meats, and it honestly just makes me sick and grumpy.

I haven't had body odor for years. But, it is getting progressively worse as this experiment goes on. It's embarrassing to workout with other people, and I'm constantly showering and washing my clothes. BORING.

I'm unsure if my body is processing any of the additional calories I'm eating. But, I haven't gained any extra weight since week two, despite continuing the same workout strategies, and eating substantially more meat and other food. Of course, this could be a plateau, but I'm not sure if this strategy is working.

It's time to re-think my plan. Although I started out eating small amounts of meat, I may have scaled up too quickly.

I tried eating ice cream a few times as well. This is what has made me the sickest of all. I really think that lactose is completely out of the question for me, and I don't plan on eating any dairy other than cheese in the foreseeable future.

Goals for Next Week

I'm actually on my third day of vegetarianism and I already feel much better. I am still going to follow through with my experiment. However, I need to restore digestive health before re-introducing meat. I already feel comfortable again, but I'm going to do a complete cleanse before jumping back into this. I am going to use one of the Renew Life systems, as I have had great success with these in the past. This will probably take two weeks.

Once I'm back to normal, I'll re-introduce high quality meat very slowly. The idea will be to maintain the same level of health, rather than just chomping things down and hope that my body eventually adapts. I will probably start with 2 meals per week and see what happens.

-sheldon
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