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Old 11-23-2009, 02:06 PM   #51
Moran Bentzur
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Re: Peanutbutter

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Is my perceived laziness such a bad thing if it leads to better informed more intelligent discussions?



I'm familiar with that research and although this type of study is interesting and important work it's publication can lead to people needlessly avoiding nutritious foods unless they understand why foods that may be associated with increased disease risk can and should be included in a healthy balanced diet. So to avoid further accusations of laziness I'll give a brief oversimplified explanation of why people can safely eat foods that may be associated with an increased risk of disease -

Food A is associated with an increased risk of disease X and a decreased risk of diseases Y and Z.

Food B is associated with an increased risk of disease Y but a decreased risk of diseases X and Z.

Food C is associated with an increased risk of disease Z but a decreased risk of disease X and Y.

If foods A, B and C are eaten together therefore the net effect is a reduced risk of developing diseases X, Y and Z.

If that simple example is extrapolated to include the wide variety of foods that people should be eating as part of a healthy diet it becomes clear that a small increase in risk associated with one food can be negated by other foods. Of course you also need to factor in the dose response when looking at risk so meat for example which is a good source of important nutrients is associated with an increased risk of numerous diseases when eaten in large amounts poses little risk to health when eaten in moderate amounts in combination with plenty of fruit and vegetables.

So to get back to peanuts lets say hypothetically that they do increase your risk of developing colon cancer (they don't) they should still be included in your diet because they're a nutrient dense food that may significantly reduce your risk of weight gain, cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, strokes, gallstones and in all probability a whole host of other diseases that nobody has thought to do the studies on yet.

Improved Diet Quality with Peanut Consumption.

Tree Nuts and Peanuts as Components of a Healthy Diet.

The potential of nuts in the prevention of cancer.

*All links wfs*
That's exactly the kind of insightful post I was trying to pry from you. I don't have any strong opinions about peanuts (I have not done much research into the subject). I find discussion about these matters much more useful and interesting than abstract wars (which should be a part but not the whole of the discussion).
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:12 PM   #52
Nicholas Schneider
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Re: Peanutbutter

damn i didnt know peanutbutter was this contraversial. Ive been cutting down on it though. I maybe eat a banana with peanutbutter in the mornings before WODs but I started eating just raw nuts, and I found that I really like almond butter
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:19 PM   #53
Scott Clark
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Re: Peanutbutter

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Originally Posted by Laura Kurth View Post
I'm not anti paleo! Lol that is hilarious. It is funny that on this board, eating a bowl of oatmeal or some peanut butter is frowned upon but eating an entire pie or pizza or gallon of ice cream in one sitting is often praised!!
My money says that those who scream the loudest about nutritional elitism don't eat the way they say they do in internet land. Like I told someone not long ago.... come here to get the rhetoric, go to Performance Menu to see how people really eat.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:15 PM   #54
Laura Kurth
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Re: Peanutbutter

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Originally Posted by Scott Clark View Post
My money says that those who scream the loudest about nutritional elitism don't eat the way they say they do in internet land. Like I told someone not long ago.... come here to get the rhetoric, go to Performance Menu to see how people really eat.
lol I know! I think the elitism is quite amusing actually. Such fervour! Such dedication to the cause! On the interwebz that is, hehe.

If this super strict paleo was so awesome, if fatty steaks and bacon were great for weight loss, if 30 days without the things you love is so easy.. then why so many people here still overweight, struggling with sticking to their diet/binging etc. I don't get it.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:00 PM   #55
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Peanutbutter

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Originally Posted by Laura Kurth View Post
But to each his own of course. I just want to clear up that I am not anti-paleo as you might say, I believe in moderation in all things. A think Micheal Pollan puts it best when he says eat food, not too much, mostly plants
I'm not anti-paleo either, just not giving up milk or other diary products. Oh yeah, oatmeal too, gotta have it. Mmmm, peanut butter.....

Eat real food as much as possible, the bad food now and then won't kill you (in general).
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:04 PM   #56
Benjamin Wheeler
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Re: Peanutbutter

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Originally Posted by Laura Kurth View Post
I think the 30 day challenge is silly yes, but I think the general principles of the paleo diet are good. A diet based around fruits & vegetables, lean meats & fish, nuts, seeds etc. can be great.

It is when things are taken to extremes (like in the 30 day challenge), saying one shouldn't have a bowl of oatmeal, or cashews (they are a legume! Botanically!) is taking things too far.

Many people simply can't stay on the 30 day challenge as laid out - it is too restrictive and when they fall off the wagon or whatever they thing they are weak etc. and try to be even stricter... the vicious cycle continues. A more moderate approach works best for many. Sure, some do great on the super rigid paleo diet, but many more end up hungry, irritable, binging uncontrollably etc. but you rarely hear those stories

I feel that I personally am fortunate to have grown up with a fairly healthy mindset that has enabled me to remain lean and fit and to follow a healthy diet pretty naturally. However this does mean that I am somewhat out of touch with the eating disordered america and sometimes cannot see eye to eye with people on these matters. To me, the solution is so simple - simply eat less and move more, but I need to remember that I have it easy in a way and that many people have a messed up attitude towards food and therefore things are NOT so black and white.

So maybe in that sense, for some, a rigid plan seems like the perfect solution - and maybe for many it works great! But a paleo diet with NO grains, NO tubers, NO dairy, NO beer (the horror!!) would not work for me. That is not to say I am anti-paleo however, ironically probably the % of kcal in my diet coming from actual "paleo" foods is probably higher than many here, because while I do include small amounts of non paleo foods it allows me to follow a moderate diet. So I don't have binge episodes.

But to each his own of course. I just want to clear up that I am not anti-paleo as you might say, I believe in moderation in all things. A think Micheal Pollan puts it best when he says eat food, not too much, mostly plants
Laura,

Whether people stay completely strict on the 30 day challenge or not doesn't mean they will not see drastic improvements. If you slip up and have a cookie it would be nuts to kick you out of the challenge, and I have found none that do so.

It is a GREAT way to inform people about healthy eating and the community involvement at an affiliate/group of friends makes it far easier to stay on track. Getting hungry, irritable & binging isn't an excuse to say the 30 day challenge is "silly". Sugar and Grains are addictive, as I am sure you know. Many people go through withdrawal from them and become irritable. But isn't that a sign that they probably aren't good for you and giving them up and getting through this stage is a better choice. I would say yes. As far as getting hungry goes..eat more...paleo food! Thats a pretty easy one and a weak argument.

If everything in moderation works for you, thats great. But even cross contamination of gluten causes me to get a rash, so grains in moderation do not work at all for me. I honestly don't believe that everything in moderation works for everyone. But I do believe a diet that stirs clear of food allergies/irritants can work for anyone. i.e a Paleo diet. Different people will run better on different macro ratios, but the food quality is the same.

Pollan's book was good.

But I am going to have to go with Dr.Eades on this one-"Eat food. As much as you want if it's mainly meat!"

Last edited by Benjamin Wheeler : 11-23-2009 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:49 PM   #57
Scott Clark
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Re: Peanutbutter

Again, the problem is that one person who has some sort of intolerance to gluten/dairy/etc. gets it in their head that since a particular food(s) doesn't agree with them that everyone should avoid those items. I'd love to see scientific evidence that grains are addictive.
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:26 PM   #58
Laura Kurth
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Re: Peanutbutter

Grains are addictive in the sense that Food is addictive... like, when you get hungry you want to eat food. Outside of that, I certainly don't feel that my oatmeal is any more "addictive" than steaks or pork chops. Whatever addictive means, really.

I don't know.

Maybe like, pancakes covered in syrup, or sugary muffins or simply candy - those things can be "addictive" in the sense that you can eat larger quantities/kcal of them without getting full. Is that what you mean by addictive?

I would find it harder to give up meat than I would oatmeal... does that mean Meat is more addictive than grains?
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:34 PM   #59
Laura Kurth
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Re: Peanutbutter

And benjamin, it sounds like you are allergic to gluten, along with less than 1% of the population. I am not allergic to gluten, along with 99% of the population.

If you choose to follow the advice - eat food, mostly meats etc. that is fine. It is your choice.

I just think it is hilarious that people will take a choice like, eating all meat, and then try to justify that and fit it into somebody elses dietary model. Why not just admit - you enjoy eating meat and plan to eat mostly meat?

I don't think whole grains are necessary in a diet, just like meat is not necessary. But there is nothing wrong with either of these things, and no need for somebody to purposefullly exclude them unless they have an allergy/intolerance. Or simply don't like them.

Everybody is different. There is no one-size-fits-all really. And to be honest I'm not sure it matters a whole lot if you have an extra pork chop or a cup of rice with your dinner. As long as your diet is based around unproccessed food & home cookin', a variety of produce, getting enought protein, enough fat and enough kcal to fuel your activity I think the minor details are over analysed here.
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:39 PM   #60
Scott Clark
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Re: Peanutbutter

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Originally Posted by Laura Kurth View Post
And benjamin, it sounds like you are allergic to gluten, along with less than 1% of the population. I am not allergic to gluten, along with 99% of the population.

If you choose to follow the advice - eat food, mostly meats etc. that is fine. It is your choice.

I just think it is hilarious that people will take a choice like, eating all meat, and then try to justify that and fit it into somebody elses dietary model. Why not just admit - you enjoy eating meat and plan to eat mostly meat?

I don't think whole grains are necessary in a diet, just like meat is not necessary. But there is nothing wrong with either of these things, and no need for somebody to purposefullly exclude them unless they have an allergy/intolerance. Or simply don't like them.

Everybody is different. There is no one-size-fits-all really. And to be honest I'm not sure it matters a whole lot if you have an extra pork chop or a cup of rice with your dinner. As long as your diet is based around unproccessed food & home cookin', a variety of produce, getting enought protein, enough fat and enough kcal to fuel your activity I think the minor details are over analysed here.
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