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Old 01-10-2006, 11:52 AM   #11
Ben Krey
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Got the adistar adidas from dynamic-eleiko.com

Love em. I started off lifting in Chuck Taylors for 3 months. Shoulda got the shoes sooner, but I still progressed over those 3 months... my form just would have been better with weightlifting shoes.

The raised heel gives you sooooo much more stability and makes it easier to keep your pelvis forward between your feet where it belongs. The funniest thing is to watch a crossfitter try to overhead squat on their heels with a pair of nike free's.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:35 PM   #12
Garrett Smith
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Ben,
Your shoe comment interested me.

I'm very curious, what is your beef with Nike Free's in particular? I have a pair of the trainers and I love them, d/t the extra foot movement and the low heel in particular. The sole seems to be less 'squishy' than other trainers I've had, wouldn't that be desirable in any type of lifting? I understand the benefits (some would say a 'crutch' designed to help people OL more, along the lines of PL knee-wraps) of the raised heel, wouldn't it be better for maintenance and development of 'normal' (most primal) proprioception to be barefoot or in as small a heel as possible?

Had to ask, I really love my shoes, and I'm looking forward to buying some AdiStars...

Dr. G
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:00 PM   #13
Ben Krey
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Nike frees have their place. If you are looking for stability, they are not the right shoe. Think of it this way... there is an inverse relationship between stability and mobility... increase one and you decrease the other. Shoes that mimmick being bare-foot obviously have less stability and more mobility.... hence the slits and separate pieces of sole in the nikes. That loss of stability forces you to recruit more muscles because of the loss of stability... not necessarily a bad thing from a strength standpoint. For crossfitting, they are a great shoe.
This saturday I watched a girl oly lift in nike frees... when the weight got overhead (squat snatch) she would start to fall back. Raising her toes to stay forward didn't work for obvious reasons (slits in the sole) and the heel was too spongy to hold her up. She would end up on her rear end with the bar in her lap. In weightlifting shoes, the heel is so sturdy, you can lean back and even get your center of gravity at or behind the heel and still stay upright by firing the tibialis anterior (ankle dorsiflexion) bringing the toes up.

If you were lifting only light weights, there wouldn't be a huge problem with frees, but if you were trying to improve your numbers, they could be dangerous. I could see an argument that they made you "stronger" because of less support... but I wouldn't shoot for any PRs with them on.

my 2 cents
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:52 PM   #14
Jason Erickson
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Lifting shoes that have a raised heel interfere with the way your foot is designed to function. The raised heel makes it easier to lift more because it changes the angles of your legs and hips, causing you to train in a more restricted ROM. If you want to get more from your training, you want LESS heel/sole thickness, not more. I switched from sneakers to the RMAX UGS (Ultimate Grappling Shoes) because it's the next best thing to training barefoot. Because there isn't a squishy sole, I don't lose stability no matter how much weight I take on. My footing is as stable as I am skillful.

Switch to UGS and lift as your body was designed to do.
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:58 PM   #15
Don Stevenson
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Jason, i'm all for the minimalistic equipment approach and constantly tell my clients to get out of runners and into thin flat soled shoes for squats deadlift and most other CF/Kb movements but I wear weightlifting shoes for weightlifting.

Nike frees and oter runners - When i'm instructing people on how to squat the most common problem when wearing these shoes is this.

1. Person starts to squat and pushes weight back on heels.
2. Heel compresses and person starts to tip over backward.
3. Nervous system panics and throws knees/shoulders forward to compensate.
4. Person ends up on toes with head down struggling to get out of the bottom of squat.
5. I tell person to buy new shoes and point to my puma speedcats

Happens 3x a week at least

If you are just lifting for general fitness then perhaps the no shoes argument has credibility but for those people taking their O lifting seriously the shoes are important. They allow you to reach the bottom position faster, the increase stability in said position and they allow a more upright torso which makes a big difference once you go above bodyweight and your arms are struggling to keep the bar racked.



(Message edited by don_stevenson on January 10, 2006)
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:00 PM   #16
Ben Krey
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Jason, when I started weightlifting (only a year ago), I approached it with the same line of thinking that you describe. That is the reason I lifted in Chucks for the first 3 months. After 9 months of wearing weightlifting shoes, I respectfully disagree with you. My ROM and flexibility increased, especially under the load of more weight. Even so, I think you and I may percieve the benefits of the olympic lifts differently, but hey, thats life.
I'm not knocking barefoot training.
I aproach the lifts as a way to increase athletic ability, power, and coordination...
What is the purpose of your olympic lifting training? Are we talking athleticism and real functional strength? This may be where we are missing eachother.

Don, I think you were right on the money.
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Old 01-11-2006, 02:55 PM   #17
Ryan Heck
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Does www.dynamic-eleiko.com have the corner on Adidas? I tried to find some competitive pricing, but only found that site selling the Adidas. Anybody had luck with better pricing, club deals, etc.?
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Old 01-11-2006, 03:01 PM   #18
Garrett Smith
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Right tool for the right job, eh?

Jason, I'm looking forward to getting some UGS eventually. I hadn't gotten any for a long time d/t a supposed leg length deficiency (long story, there's only a bit I mentioned on the other osteopathic thread, anyway I'm not using a lift anymore) and the UGS didn't appear to me to be suitable for putting a 12mm heel lift in--it kind of defeated their purpose.

Ben, thanks for your explanation. I really like my shoes, thus the question. Have you or anyone else noticed any 'squish' difference b/w the Free trainers and the running shoes?

Anyway, after hearing this, I'll probably get both some UGS and some OL shoes (for those max days). Hopefully I'll eventually have a better place to be barefoot!

Dr. G
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Old 01-11-2006, 03:07 PM   #19
Veronica Carpenter
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Ryan, Dynamic-eleiko has been providing shoes for OL athletes for as long as I can remember. You'll get a fair deal with them.
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Old 01-13-2006, 08:23 AM   #20
Neal Thompson
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Ryan-

I bought a pair of weightlifting shoes from VS Athletics online for $55 and they work great. They are damn ugly, but they are just as functional as the Addidas.

-Neal
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