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Old 04-30-2007, 12:17 PM   #91
Roger Harrell
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I am in no way "offended" by the music. It doesn't cause me personal discomfort. It doesn't directly bother me in any way. It's just not, as others have said, creating a higher standard. I want to feel comfortable sending anyone to this site (also as many others have stated). We have a swearing policy in our gym. There is punishment (in the form of work) for swearing. So the comment about "if you had just the sound of the person working out I guarantee you'd hear swearing" is simply not true. We have a lot of folks working their tails off going hard all the time without any swearing whatsoever. It does happen, but we push for a higher standard. It's simply unnecessary and adds no value.

You may call me a prude, or whatever, but as I said, I'm not offended, I simply don't see the point. No additional message is conveyed, or the additional message conveyed is a negative one.
Old 04-30-2007, 12:38 PM   #92
Barry Cooper
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Couple more drive-by thoughts.

This sort of discussion is really sort of the dividing line between small and big. I've worked for big corporations, and for small companies. At the small company where I work, managers will drop the F-bomb in meetings, let us drink in the office after 4:30 or so, take us to the track, etc. I couldn't do that at the Fortune 100 company I did time at.

Thus, in a sense, the sheer volume of traffic--which is to say the growth of CrossFit--is what sparked this discussion, which is a good thing. In the old days, assuming the video had been made, the people who saw it would have known Tony, and if they objected, would have just ribbed him mercilessly about it, until he really did put Lawrence Welk on.

Second, it does seem to me that in a way we are implicitly accusing the studettes on the video of something along the lines of "false consciousness", to use a very effective propagandizing phrase of yesteryear. They are on there, and they said, in effect, "whatever, dude, I got stuff to do." We don't need to second guess them on that level. I'm sure they were just thinking they've heard this song many times, and it's hard core.

Which brings me to my third point, which is that Tony didn't have to dig deep or long to come up with this song. It's not like he pulled this out of some sort of secret collection of pervert music, that he had to buy downtown at a store with neon lights, where everyone wears trenchcoats and it's always raining.

This is mainstream, folks, and if that bothers you, it should. I was just reading today how they are making a Hostel 2, this time with women. The ad poster--which the FCC won't let be put up in theaters--shows a severed woman's head. The original Hostel cost $5 million, and made $80 million. They are calling it "torture ".

If that doesn't get folks thinking about the direction in which our society is moving, I don't know what will. The psychology of this is an on-going strong interest of mine.

I know Tony, and in my opinion he is a genuinely nice guy. I'm sure he anticipated a few complaints, but nothing like this. He runs the Affiliate program, and I'm sure he is taking some notes, especially since this discussion has been going on for so long.

I genuinely hate telling people what to do. It's not my business. However, I never hesitate to do what I can to expand an issue, and highlight the larger issues. In this case, I think the larger issue is that in failing to feel some sense of outrage at this song--even though it has some good riffs--we implicitly mainstream this sort of sentiment, and this has been an ongoing process for 150 years or more. Artists since at least the Romantic period have understood themselves very consciously as socially destructive.

There are likely isomorphisms between Poe and Hostel, not to mention of course Sade. I'm trying to figure it out, but suffice it to say, this is not my taste in music.b
Old 04-30-2007, 12:52 PM   #93
Pierre Auge
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I like your point...

I have a question: What video are half the people in this thread refering too? Because if we're all talking about the same thing at no time was any black music or gangsta rap played!

I'm confused because Nickleback is a white rock band from Alberta. Now based out of Vancouver BC.

work family/safe link to wikipedia

I still find it weird they seriously play this song several times daily on just about every alternative and rock station in the country... I love my American's but geeze get a grip!

Let me say this - is not particularly representitive of the majority of affiliates... We're all very different and having been to many affiliates I can say that without hesitation...

If we were cooky cutter copies of each other Lauren and Greg would be I'm sure this is the opposite of what they want... Half the population of our affiliate is Mil/Leo/ERT not particularly the cleanest mouthed individuals neither am I... Its a bad habit! I respect Roger for having a more professional environment but we cater to our respective audiences. I'm not saying vulgarity is a simple matter of life that people should have to deal with, I'm simply saying that with becoming thicker skinned in the hands may lead to becoming thinker skinned in the ear. If we live our lives offended by everything everyone else does then we will live pretty empty sheltered lives! You don't have to accept it just don't necessarily expect others to accept your offense as a need to alter ones universal perceptions...

I'm stupid!

I disagree with you on one point in order to do this for any extended period of time you need to be a Crazy B*#CH to some degree, the message is neither positive nor negative - just pretty much true, life throws those realities at us often whether we like it or not...
Old 04-30-2007, 01:23 PM   #94
Dwight Deckard
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OK, I said I wouldn't post here again, but just once more so I can answer Pierre's question: I think this thread has evolved beyond just the one song mentioned earlier into a general thought on several recent offerings. The one that would give me pause, in a business related way, is in the "Lynne" video posted Feb 20.
Old 04-30-2007, 01:38 PM   #95
Tony Budding
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There are a few important misconceptions in this debate. The first is that the music in the videos has become more explicit of late. Yet, my original post said that I was surprised at the explicit nature of the lyrics when I first came around in 2004. There was explicit music on the site before there was an affiliate program. Every single affiliate has come on board knowing that some of our videos have explicit lyrics (if they didn't, they are negligent, not us).

Dale, I'm a little surprised by your post. You seem so careful with your language and in holding folks accountable to not misstating your point, yet you widely misrepresent what I said about losing our core audience. What I wrote was "I think we'd RISK losing MORE of core crowd than we do NOW because of the LOSS OF RESPECT..." (emphasis mine now, not originally). I don't think folks will leave because we stop swearing. I do think we'd risk losing the respect of our core crowd if we went against a central part of our philosophy. To be very clear, that aspect is:

It is not our responsibility to protect you from aspects of our culture that you don't like. (I thought Russell Greene said it very well.)

I believe that as many CrossFitters love the explicit music as hate it. The two songs in the HSC-Pullup video were each recommended to me by CrossFit women who have been in our videos. I don't see why we should cater to one segment of our population over another.

Again, a sentence deserving it's own paragraph is that everyone has a mute button and their own free will.

Another curious aspect to this whole debate is how many folks posting say "I don't mind the music personally, but ..." Why do you feel the need to protect others if it doesn't bother you? Do you think so lowly of them that they can't figure out how to mute a video? Or that they're not strong enough to decide for themselves? If you have kids, preview the videos. You do it for movies and TV shows, right? Why do some of you feel like victims in this?

Lynne hates our music. She does an amazing job with this message board, but she has no say over the music in the videos. I, for one, am glad because I don't like bluegrass. Dan MacDougald hates our music. They've told me they watch the videos muted. But I've used a song Dan recommended to me. In fact, I've used almost every song that's been recommended to me. But I have no intention of protecting you from Rod Stewart, Brittney Spears, Ministry, Dope, or Too $hort. They're part of our culture and you have the right to listen or not. You have the right to participate and/or recommend the site or not. And you have the right to debate the music like this. Like Dale, I'm only jumping back in because I was misrepresented again.
Old 04-30-2007, 01:43 PM   #96
Pierre Auge
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Dwight - Roger I see where we're at sorry about that!

dude we can't please everybody all the time and I'm glad you aren't trying...
Old 04-30-2007, 01:44 PM   #97
Pierre Auge
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I you were I fear we would be back to the terrible slide show throw backs from three years ago!

You're doing good work...
Old 04-30-2007, 01:47 PM   #98
Connie Morreale
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at this point we are all repeating the same opinions over and over.

so, i'll join the crowd and repeat this thought:
there are tons of non-country, non-folksy, non-accordion, non-sinatra songs on top 40/rock stations that have the edge we all seem to like, but without the controversy.
i'm thinking, if this music were used, noone, and i mean noone, would say...."gee, that video sure would have had more impact if it had used a track that had a few obsenities"

dy try n

(Message edited by Connie_m on April 30, 2007)
Old 04-30-2007, 02:04 PM   #99
Dale F. Saran
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Tony - THAT is an excellent response!! Truly. I need to mull it over. I try to be careful about language because it is my stock in trade. In that regard, if I have overstated your earlier position, I apologize.

Thank you very much for so thoughtful a response. That is why I like this place so much. Faith restored. Even if I later disagree, which I am still unsure about.
Old 04-30-2007, 02:38 PM   #100
Ron Nelson
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nothing to see

Ron, you know the rules. No links that do not describe and do not state work/family safe.
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