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Old 12-27-2003, 12:06 PM   #1
Paul Kayley
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I've been eating low-carbs for nearly 6 months now. I just recently started to use high GI carbs with whey protein, straight after training to help speed up the glycogen replenishment.

Is it normal for the metabolism to crank right up due to this. My pulse is 10-15 beats higher for at least two hours after and I sometimes feel a bit unwell. Is this just my body working to process the carbs?
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Old 12-27-2003, 12:17 PM   #2
Paul Kayley
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Does anyone have any info about what sort of quantity of carbohydrates are stored in the muscles as glycogen.

This will help when deciding how much to eat to replenish without causing 'Overspill'.
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Old 12-27-2003, 08:28 PM   #3
Robert Wolf
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Paul-

What you are describing is an accute hyperinsulinemic response with likely repound hypoglycemia...(insulin high, blood sugar low).

IMO this is not a desirable state and can/will undermine much of the benefits of CrossFit and an otherwise sound nutritional approach (assuming their is one).

Total systemic glycogen storage depends upon muscle and liver mass so it can vary quite a bit according to size. 400g is likely a good average value.
Good luck
Robb
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Old 12-28-2003, 11:39 AM   #4
Paul Kayley
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Rob, I thought that a strong insulin response was desirable. I have been taking 30g whey isolate with about 60-70g high GI carbs, twice, in the 2 hrs after training, and thought that the high insulin response was optimal to increase the drive of aminos and glucose into the muscles?

Perhaps my muscles are less depleted than I think, due to good glycogen sparing ability achieved through fat-adaption, and there is insufficient space to accomodate the carbs, therefore the body is struggling to clear the blood of the excess glucose. Does this sound feasible?
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Old 12-28-2003, 03:17 PM   #5
Kevin Roddy
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You sound about on.

Generally, the high GI protein shake (Dex+malto+whey) is recommended towards bodybuilders, whose workouts are normally geared towards the depletion of glycogen. You needn't worry about such things here - crossfit is much more geared towards generating a powerful neuroendocrine response.
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Old 12-28-2003, 03:19 PM   #6
Robert Wolf
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Paul-

It does sound feasable. Look through the archives for similar topics to this as there have been some excellent contributions. Perhaps most notably from Dan John.

My opinion on this subject is that chronic insulin spiking is asking for problems. My experience is that it is inferior to a more moderate approach(Zone) or even a low carb approach (think NHE or Metabolic diet). I always recomend that people tinker and monitor progress to see what works...just be carefull with this protocol.
Robb
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Old 12-28-2003, 06:35 PM   #7
Barry Cooper
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It sounds like you're basically drinking Kool-Aid with some protein. Especially if your diet is normally super low carb, you're going to get a spike of seismic proportions. The whole goal of the low carb type approaches, as I understand it, is to increase your insulin sensivitity, i.e. you need less insulin to accomplish the same thing, and so you avoid the negative effects of hyperinsulinemia.

In my personal opinion--and I'm just an opinionated amateur--you also need to guard against hypoinsulinemia. My personal experience has been that I feel like crap if I don't get enough carbs. There seems to be, as Barry Sears says, a Zone where you are getting enough to feel good--and this is how you eat all day every day-- but not so much that you're developing the problem of decreased insulin sensitivity. What I like about that diet is you're very close to eating Paleo--you're eating good quality protein, lots of veggies, and some fruit, nuts, and some vegetable oils, if you want.

The thing to remember about Barry Sears is his background in developing delivery systems for AIDS and Chemotherapy drugs. What he noticed was that if you failed to get enough drugs in, the effect was lost, but if you got too much in, you killed the patient. The road from that (I would suppose, retrospectively, obvious) insight to the Zone is short. In the case of the high Glycemic Index carb loading you're doing, you're way overdosing.

He may be glib, salesey, and writing books prescribing fish oils only he makes, but I can tell you from my personal experience that paying attention to the proportions of my meals has made a huge difference for me. Almost without exception, I can tell within an hour or two of eating when I've screwed up.
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Old 12-29-2003, 12:05 PM   #8
Paul Kayley
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Thanks Barry. What amount do you think would be about right? Or perhaps you recommend experimenting?
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Old 12-29-2003, 01:51 PM   #9
Barry Cooper
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Paul,

I just looked at your picture: that's FUNNY. As far as diet, I would suggest just following the Zone diet. There are a number of threads on here on the athletes version of it. Normally, it's 40% carbs from low GI fruits and veggies, 30% from fairly lean protein, and 30% from "good" fat like olive oil and nuts. You base the whole thing on your estimated lean body mass, and its' estimated protein requirements. For athletes you eat a lot more fat, but keep the protein/carb ratios about the same. By eating carbs constantly, you replenish your glycogen stores in a much more subtle and sustainable manner.

Coach recommends The Omega RX Zone, I think, as the best Zone book. Enter the Zone, and Master the Zone are also of course good as well.

One thing to note as well: Mark Allen actually didn't have a formal diet plan in his later years, according to my recollection. He just paid close attention to what his body was telling him, both as far as cravings, and as far as its' reaction to foods he was eating. That may be a good exercise for you. I'm pretty sure Barry Sears has a daily worksheet in the Omega Zone book you can use to actually chart how you're feeling.
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:37 AM   #10
Paul Kayley
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Thanks Barry... good advice. I also need to chill out a bit and find an attitude somewhere between my own and Homer's! It would be nice not to give a damn.
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