CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-25-2013, 05:21 PM   #781
Jeff Enge
Banned Jeff Enge is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Collinsville  IL
Posts: 5,542
Re: Gslp

Your logic makes sense but the what I described is indeed the proper terminology.

Its not a huge deal to this discussion except to avoid confusion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 06:14 PM   #782
Chris Diamont
Member Chris Diamont is offline
 
Chris Diamont's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: King  NC
Posts: 264
Re: Gslp

So Jeff, I was taught that you do a power clean or snatch until the weight gets to a point where you have to do a full "squat" clean or snatch. For instance if I can clean 185 with ease but can't do 225 then I would drop into a full clean for the 225 but not for the 185. Logic was explained to me that the full clean is more stressful on the body and harder to control with light weight but as you get heavier you cannot pull as high so you drop to catch. That being said, I now find it hard to drop and catch a lite weight but just naturally drop to catch heavy weight. Make sense? Of course this was taught by my college strength coach so could be wrong just what I was taught 15 years ago! Lol
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 05:38 AM   #783
Jeff Enge
Banned Jeff Enge is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Collinsville  IL
Posts: 5,542
Re: Gslp

First of all, keep in mind that I'm not a strength-training authority, so most of my advice is based on what I've read, what I've experienced in my relatively short CrossFit career, and what I see as a large dose of common sense.

That said, I think what your saying, Chris, makes perfect sense from the standpoint of using the lifts as power exercises for sport. If you're doing it right (pulling the bar all the way up to the shoulders as opposed to the "starfish" power clean which is people afraid to get in the hole when they need to), I think a power clean is probably better at building pure explosiveness than the full clean.

However, if you are actually training the Olympic lifts for the sake of doing them and not as an accessory to power sports training, learning and being comfortable with dropping in the hole is just as important as the pull itself. It's about solidifying technique and needs to be practiced more than just when the weight gets to heavy to power.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 08:57 AM   #784
Adam Shreim
Member Adam Shreim is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 437
Re: Gslp

I think that depends on what you train and how you train it. I remember my first 225# Clean and Jerk. It was a power clean. I missed 225# cleans quite a few times before that, but figured I could catch it if I pulled a little harder.

That makes sense if you are catching the weight the most effective and proper way - going as low as you need to catch it. However, I still think it is tough to get comfortable at the bottom, without forcing yourself to the bottom. There is a big difference between a power athlete training these for thier respective sport, a CrossFitter using these in a MetCon and a weightlifter training for the sport. The first mainly trains the power versions, the second mainly utilizes the power versions and the third only does the "power" versions on lighter weight because that is as low as they need to go.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 04:36 PM   #785
Jayme Gruber
Member Jayme Gruber is offline
 
Jayme Gruber's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh  PA
Posts: 617
Re: Gslp

So, I first of all think I need to drop down the weight and focus more on technique because it doesn't look as smooth as it should.

Anyway, high bar or low bar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ILElRfyBuI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7oGr0prgII
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 05:10 PM   #786
Craig Horstman
Member Craig Horstman is offline
 
Craig Horstman's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Schweinfurt  Germany
Posts: 287
Re: Gslp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayme Gruber View Post
So, I first of all think I need to drop down the weight and focus more on technique because it doesn't look as smooth as it should.

Anyway, high bar or low bar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ILElRfyBuI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7oGr0prgII
high bar
__________________
33/M/5'9"/188lbs 1RM Bench:240, Squat:255, Press:150, Dead: 365
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 01:02 AM   #787
Boris Roman
Member Boris Roman is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cologne  NRW
Posts: 14
Re: Gslp

Back on the discussion of power vs. full lifts. Here's a quote of Glenn Pendlay taken from the Outlaw Blog. Of course he's a weightlifting trainer, so that's where his perspective comes from, but his points are solid.

The Power Snatch is half the movement. It gives someone with a ****ty pull and a ****ty finish, the ability to continue to be ****ty at Snatching, while moving a relatively heavy load to overhead with the ****tiest, most useless possible technique. It allows under-developed lifters to feel good about themselves, while remaining under-developed, and only practicing the pulling portion of the lift. My best lifters—at the Snatch—look the exact same with an empty barbell as they do with 150kg. The Power Snatch is good for de-loading, or practicing the pull, but it should never be a lifters default choice.” – Glenn Pendlay
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 06:10 AM   #788
Eric Montgomery
Member Eric Montgomery is offline
 
Eric Montgomery's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 7,413
Re: Gslp

Haven't seen that quote--is Pendlay talking about athletes in general, or WLers specifically?

Rip, John Welbourne, and plenty of other sports-specific coaches like the power versions of the lifts because they give all the benefits of training rapid hip/knee extension without the additional technique work required to get someone good at pulling under the bar and without adding more heavy front squats or OHS to what might already be a large workload. The reasoning is that the time required to make someone better at cleans as opposed to power cleans is time that could be better spent working on sport-specific skills, and in most cases I think that's sound reasoning.

If you're going to compete in WLing then obviously you need to get comfortable with the full lifts. If you're not, then you can get a huge majority of WLing's benefits by doing the power versions.
__________________
Training Log (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 06:42 AM   #789
Jayme Gruber
Member Jayme Gruber is offline
 
Jayme Gruber's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh  PA
Posts: 617
Re: Gslp

So just to be clear, because there was confusion on terminology before. Full lift = taken from the ground and into a full squat?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 06:47 AM   #790
Jeff Enge
Banned Jeff Enge is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Collinsville  IL
Posts: 5,542
Re: Gslp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayme Gruber View Post
So just to be clear, because there was confusion on terminology before. Full lift = taken from the ground and into a full squat?
Yes sir.

The reason I was recommending full over power version is because I was under the impression you wanted to improve your weightlifting and not just fitness. Correct me if I am wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:17 PM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.