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Old 07-25-2005, 10:11 PM   #1
Joshua F Hillis
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I was just thinking about that the other day. Reading the Dynamax manual they recommend that if you only had time for one med ball drill, do a rotational drill. And it occurred to me that I've never seen anything requiring rotational strength in the WOD.

So I was wondering what people think about that. Is rotational strength not really necessary? Is it that there aren't a ton of functional ways to work it? Or has it been there and I just haven't noticed?

Some things I was thinking about ways to do rotational ball throws without a partner. The ball run could be done solely with rotational throws. Or even a rotational wall ball - either with a high target or with a target horizontal to the thrower. Either way you'd prob have to clean the ball off the ground each rep - not a bad thing. Or even do full contact twists. Or throwing kettlebells at the beach like highland games weight throw for distance. I could see subbing any of these into a chipper. What do you guys think?
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Old 07-25-2005, 11:04 PM   #2
Eric Moffit
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well, i do know that my rotation during sports like golf and baseball is strongly enhanced by the triple point extension, which we see a lot of during the WOD (snatch, clean, jerk, push press, KB swing, box jumps, etc etc). my most powerful swing comes when i lead with my hip, and i lead with my hip via the tri-point extension (hip, knee, ankle). i really noticed this golfing a few weeks back. the tee was right by the pro shop, and some people were watching us. so, to avoid totally screwing up, i started thinking about my fundamentals and this quickly turned into...'drive with the hip'...'just drive with the hip'. when i actually swung, i was focused exclusively on my legs...i wasnt aware of my upper body and my arms were like lifeless extensions...and i drove the ball like id never driven it before. absolutely crushed it.

i guess this isnt quite what you were looking for, but your post reminded me of it and i thought it would be a worthwhile contribution since the WOD does, in this way, train rotation.

and im pretty sure the throwers out there would agree that training the tri-point extension at least aids rotational strength.
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:44 AM   #3
Andrew Gray
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Rotation seems to be the hot topic right now, there are 2 other threads that just got started dealing with hip rotation:
http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/21/12137.html
http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/12228.html

there is also this thread: http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/6583.html from a while back that brought up the same basic question.

Hope that helps!
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:13 AM   #4
dave ojeda
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Joshua,

I posted the same question yesterday as well.
http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/12228.html

Looking forward to the discussion.

Andrew
THanks for the links very helpful!
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Old 07-26-2005, 07:22 AM   #5
Eric Moffit
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rotational strength discussion...everybody's doin it.
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:42 AM   #6
Robert Wolf
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Thai kicks.
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:56 AM   #7
Ryan Atkins
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Cool. Got it covered, Robb.

Ryan
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:25 AM   #8
Joshua F Hillis
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Andrew, awesome threads on that link.

Didn't realize that this discussion was so "yesterday". Here I thought I was being all cutting edge and stuff.

So is Tae Bo a decent substitute for Thai kicks? =)
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Old 07-31-2005, 01:45 PM   #9
Dan John
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I've addressed this a number of times...if you are really bored go to my Q and A page(s) on my site http://danjohn.org/coach
but the bottom line...for me...is that rotational exercises...lifting...has limited value. Hey, I had Pavel walk me through all the stuff (and I have very great respect for him), but it just doesn't carry over into the throws. Now, for some of you guys...maybe...but for tosser types...nope.

Heavy farmers bars or suitcase carries do more for throwing far than all the twists AND you don't get hurt.

Robb gave me some advice about the L Sits and throwing and he is right on: the isometric strength of L Sits carries right over into the throws.

Oh. Throwers are like experts in rotational issues. That's why I jumped in.

In other words: great do 'em...but I have found ZERO value to them in making throwers throw farther. Other than that...
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Old 08-03-2005, 11:30 AM   #10
Neill S. Occhiogrosso
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I’ve been thinking more about this subject. There are several ways to train rotational strength, but few (none?) of them are conducive to training near limit strength. There may be no rotational equivalent to a three-rep max squat or deadlift. This is probably for practical reasons. If you had a bat so heavy that you could only swing it once, would you be able to pick it up? What would you be strengthening, the muscles rotating the bat, or the muscles keeping it off of the floor?

We have Thai kicks, medicine ball work, and other high-repetition protocols on one hand. On the other hand we have throwing, which is basically explosive singles.

The functionality of rotational “lifting” exercises is in question, also. Dan John just posted that they don’t improve throwing performance. Is rotating more about coordination and less about a specific strength / power?

Cables and bands can provide limit resistance for rotational movements. I don’t know if this would be effective and would love to hear expert opinions on these types of movements:
http://outside.away.com/outside/body...ewoodchop.html
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...BPushPull.html

I think many of the clubbell movements are rotational. I also haven’t had any experience with these. Thoughts? Opinions?

Finally, there’s sledgehammer training (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/inmag10.htm), which just looks fun. Has anybody tried this?
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