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Old 08-07-2011, 10:46 AM   #141
Justin McCallon
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Re: Final games thoughts

Well, not really.

Like, let's say you're a soldier in a war. If you plan to invade the opposition's base by doing a bunch of butterfly pull-ups or by holding an L-Sit, you're making 0 progress. If you run, scale a wall, tackle someone, etc, then you are actually doing something. The pull-ups and L-sits are a great way to build the skills that you'd actually use...


You might have a need to push a car or move a bunch of weight. I can't imagine a time where you'd need to rack a weight on your back and then squat it 50x. Squats are very "functional" and will help with the Real World movements, but in itself it's not a Real World movement.

Take for instance Atlas Stones. I consider that a Real World movement. If you front squat it up but only move it up 3 feet when you need to load it on a 5 foot stand, then you have not finished the event... Basically, it comes down to moving yourself, moving an external object, or both, the most efficient way possible, from Point A to Point B, where point A and point B are the same for all people. This is the standard used in basically any event not decided by judges. For example, if you need to dunk a basketball, it doesn't really matter that you jumped 1/3 of your height in the air. It matters that you dunked the basketball.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:03 PM   #142
Mauricio Leal
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Re: Final games thoughts

I see your point but it is shortsighted. I can fairly accurately stratify the Real World (RW) fitness levels of a large group of disparate athletes based simply on their max Overhead Squat. Add in a few more polar metrics for greater accuracy. There's a reason why as coaches we want to know and improve an athlete's Fran time or Diane time in preparation for almost any non-specialized event/eventuality, and it isn't because those movements are necessarily going to be tested directly. It's because those movements are widely recognized as the most productively powerful in their respective domains (planes, ranges, loading schemes). They tax the human body maximally in unique ways (though not the only ways of course), and that exposure is valuable. Broadly powerful athletes can perform a wide range of RW tasks with some minimal skill development specific to the task. Somewhat ironically, not all Real World tasks are inherently high power, even when performed to their maximum, though they're not mutually exclusive either. That is, some RW tasks are high power, but the object of them is not necessarily high intensity/power. A soldier gets a (edit) BRONZE STAR for dragging his buddy 50 yards from a burning tank while under fire whether he ends up gassed from the endeavor or not. Obviously, you could make the RW test higher intensity by doing it X times or making the load greater, but that similarly becomes a contrivance/made up thing. The goal is not necessarily the method.

I do agree that barbells and bars more generally are overemphasized, but they are simply a tool, and provide great measure-ability in an otherwise highly variable/unmeasurable world. An atlas stone, though more "realistic" because it's CG and dimensions make leveraging it a gnarly task, is ultimately also a made up thing. Truly RW objects are almost always uneven, unique, and horrendous to work with (rocks, logs, dirt, bodies). One's own body is actually the only constant really, which I think sufficiently justifies gymnastics as a worthy thing to bias if anything (not that I propose that). $0.02.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:07 PM   #143
Jeff Binek
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Re: Final games thoughts

This got off on such a pointless tangent. Who cares about the real world functionality of any of this? Why does that matter? It is a competition that tests whatever the hell it feels like...some things are better than others, but if we need more tests and more capacity we can't just deadlift on every workout because has more real world value than handstand walking... We have to get into the more obscure things to continue testing people and pushing people beyond their comfort.

Besides we have lots of IT people, teachers, etc. in our affiliate. None of this is functional for them at all, but competing is fun, and CF is a fun way to get fit for everyday people. Some people like to compete, but I doubt any of them ever sit there after losing and go "Man thats so stupid, why would I ever need to do that, this should only test things I will use (or am good at)." More likely they say "Damn that was different, I'll have to remember those and get better at them." Because at the end of the day Deadlifts and squats are great, but they bore some people (not me) and some people enjoy the test of walking on their hands, or doing a backflip, or becoming better and manipulating their bodies...Some are better than others...Personally I love that CF and the games continue to push the sport and boxes across the country and people to get out to a football field and practice rolling around and walking on their hands instead of sitting in a box doing 5x5 squat three times a week...you guys can complain all day about the point of all of it in the games, but athletes pick up new things faster, and changing it up on competitors is a good way to test different elements of athleticism, don't expect it to go anywhere.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:09 PM   #144
Jeff Binek
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Re: Final games thoughts

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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
A soldier gets a purple heart for dragging his buddy 50 yards from a burning tank while under fire whether he ends up gassed from the endeavor or not.
No he doesn't.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:13 PM   #145
Mauricio Leal
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Re: Final games thoughts

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No he doesn't.
Haha, my bad, please ignore/forgive my ignorance about which military awards are for what. They get MAD PROPS from me .
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:13 PM   #146
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Final games thoughts

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Originally Posted by Jeff Binek View Post
No he doesn't.
Yeah, I was going to point that out too but decided not to.

In general it's better for non-military types to refrain from using military analogies or examples unless they really know what they're talking about.

EDIT: Mauricio, a Purple Heart is for being wounded in combat. Your example might rate a Bronze Star or an Army/Navy Commendation with a V or something similar, depending on the details.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:30 PM   #147
Jeff Binek
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Re: Final games thoughts

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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
Haha, my bad, please ignore/forgive my ignorance about which military awards are for what. They get MAD PROPS from me .
It's all good! I guarantee that the info below will come in useful in a conversation in your lifetime. As an American (who clearly respects the military) you might want to look into this stuff some time, it is interesting and useful knowledge. I always have a high level of respect for civilians who know the military well...especially those without major family influence to do so. Things like knowing medals and rank structure will come in useful all the time, if for nothing else than in movies and books! Plus it shows a level of respect for the armed forces if you never served yourself. If you know what it means when someone wears this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...BVERSE_ONE.png (WFS) then you will know to give that person an enormously high level of respect that you may not have before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
Yeah, I was going to point that out too but decided not to.

In general it's better for non-military types to refrain from using military analogies or examples unless they really know what they're talking about.

EDIT: Mauricio, a Purple Heart is for being wounded in combat. Your example might rate a Bronze Star or an Army/Navy Commendation with a V or something similar, depending on the details.
This.
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Last edited by Jeff Binek : 08-07-2011 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:32 PM   #148
Mauricio Leal
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Re: Final games thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Binek View Post
It's all good! I guarantee that the info below will come in useful in a conversation in your lifetime. As an American (who clearly respects the military) you might want to look into this stuff some time, it is interesting and useful knowledge. I always have a high level of respect for civilians who know the military well...especially those without major family influence to do so. Things like knowing medals and rank structure will come in useful all the time, if for nothing else than in movies and books! Plus it shows a level of respect for the armed forces if you never served yourself.
Right on, will do.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:44 PM   #149
Adam Carlson
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Re: Final games thoughts

Going back real quickly to the functionality argument, how about play? Not everything needs to be life and death, caveman survival. I was doing flips off the diving board and dock (the dock was much easier for this newbie) the other day for the first time. Fun stuff, and I'm glad that I am able to do them, and that my body will allow me to 'function' that way.

Anyway, I agree with what's been said in regards to events: they need to be designed to 1) be measurable, and 2) push people well outside of their comfort zones in order to find what someone's capacity truly is. Rich Froning losing his lead last year on the rope climb was very telling of what his capacity was. He then conquered it and came back big time this year. Great stuff.
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:17 AM   #150
Matthew Swartz
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Re: Final games thoughts

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But 'Finest of Earth' is the claim made. The trouble I have with that is that no events test that realm of fitness. I suspect the answer is that most CF athletes would seriously struggle at such tests or there would be huge discrepancies in outcome.

Endurance is a huge aspect of human fitness. CF focusses only on one end of the spectrum, but pretty much ignores the other.

Eric, this isn't about me. I'm not competing nor making claim to being the Fittest in the Universe. I'm just a chump. These guys should be able to best me at everything, including running.
Christ... this guy's back?

This is why I don't go on the boards on the weekends.
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