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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-29-2008, 05:36 AM   #21
Tom Fetter
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

Really interesting results, Ahmik.

Do you have your clients do the standard CFWU prior? Or an abbreviated version? I cut the CFWU entirely when I did my SS cycle, because at my fairly modest strength levels ... 30 or 45 dips would have really messed with my pressing progress.

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Old 08-29-2008, 07:31 AM   #22
Ahmik Jones
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

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Originally Posted by Tom Fetter View Post
Really interesting results, Ahmik.

Do you have your clients do the standard CFWU prior? Or an abbreviated version? I cut the CFWU entirely when I did my SS cycle, because at my fairly modest strength levels ... 30 or 45 dips would have really messed with my pressing progress.

t
We cut the warm-up short on lifting days. Usually just one round. We do this for a few reasons. First is what you mentioned above, second we barely have time in a hour to get through a heavy lift and a CrossFit workout with a large class, and third we need time to warm up the lift.

We do the full 3 rounds of warm-up on the days that we don't lift.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:43 AM   #23
Ahmik Jones
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

Something I forgot to mention in my previous post. Our new clients are encouraged to go up 5-10 pounds each time we do a lift. Once progress in the squat strops, we make Monday a lighter squat day, around 75-85% of their 5 rep max and try to go up in weight once a week.

We bought some fractional plates that people use when their progress stops in the Press.

For the deadlift we occassionally change things up by doing heavy singles or substituting a workout like Diane.
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:53 AM   #24
Dave Taylor
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

Thanks for the program info thats really what i was looking at. it adds a little sub on the end of a work out so i dont lose all the great benifits from the crossfit metcons.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:04 AM   #25
Jeff Martin
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

Ahmik,
Any chance that you can delineate CrossFit newbies, people who have only been doing CF for a year, vs those who are longtime CrossFitters like yourself. We would expect huge gains in strength from newbies following the mainpage Wod as well as substantial drops in times on named WOD's. The training effect accounts for that. I would want to focus on the gains longtime CrossFitters were making. Does the program provide statistically significant gains greatert than the following the front page for the longtime CrossFitter.
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Old 08-30-2008, 01:28 AM   #26
Ahmik Jones
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

The experiment I designed was limited by the lack of a control group. So I have no real proof.

I do have anecdotal accounts of substantial gains for long term CrossFitters during this intervention, as compared to the prior 3 months where we were doing pretty much the workouts off of the main site.

I know that several people who had been doing CrossFit for more than a year and were still not strong enough to do the workouts as written gained the strength that they were lacking during that 10 weeks, and several others who were already doing them as written who made substantial gains.

This is still more my impression than any real scientific knowledge.

I think if I had my way, and had the space and the staff to accomidate it, I would have most of my new people do Starting Strength for a couple months to get strong enough to do the workouts as written and then start the workouts from the site. Their initial improvement would not be as great as someone who just starting following the site, but I think 6 months after starting to exercise, people who took time off and focused on strength for 3 months will be ahead of people who started doing the workouts strait off of the site.

Some of this is assuming that these new clients lacked strength when they showed up. Someone with a strength training background would probably do better jumping right into CrossFit.
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Old 08-30-2008, 01:43 AM   #27
Brandon Oto
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

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Originally Posted by Ahmik Jones View Post
I think if I had my way, and had the space and the staff to accomidate it, I would have most of my new people do Starting Strength for a couple months to get strong enough to do the workouts as written and then start the workouts from the site. Their initial improvement would not be as great as someone who just starting following the site, but I think 6 months after starting to exercise, people who took time off and focused on strength for 3 months will be ahead of people who started doing the workouts strait off of the site.

Some of this is assuming that these new clients lacked strength when they showed up. Someone with a strength training background would probably do better jumping right into CrossFit.
This is the exact position I take. We're on the same page.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:39 AM   #28
Jeff Martin
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

Ahmik,
I understand about the sample size and the anecdotal nature of what you are doing. Still the data presented would be more relevant with certain markers. The first being a delineation between newbies and long time CrossFitters.

The point you bring up is an interesting one. Are you saying you had committed CrossFitters coming to your classes for over a year, following the mainpage WOD or a similar prescription of 7-10 strength/heavy days and mixed with typical Metcons and your people were unable to do the named WOD's as Rx'd. That would be shocking. Or are you saying you had longtime clients coming who were spending most of their time doing Metcons who began having committed strength days.

This is really interesting and important data point. My belief and experience is that when I bring in person and they follow our program which includes committed strength days they are fairly quickly able to do the WOD as Rx'd. The strength required to do the workouts just isn't that hard to build.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:35 AM   #29
Trent Justice
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

Ahmik,

I like the look of your template. But could you describe or give an example of a "short high power CF workout". Are these workouts more strength or just extremely intense and short metabolic workouts?
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:41 AM   #30
Brian Solar
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Re: best combo. starting strength and crossfit

I am also 16 but weigh around 165 lbs. I have also been wondering if I should add more strength work to the WODs or not, since I am young.
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