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Old 08-23-2006, 08:03 PM   #81
Jay Hanewinkel
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Good points guys.

I'll say that I don't know Jeff Martin and have yet to see any evidence that Krav Maga works, so I can only go by the things I have seen.
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:32 PM   #82
Laura Rucker
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If you knew Jeff Martin, you would have quite a bit of knowledge and experience to draw from - (and he makes his knowledge and experience available quite freely to anyone interested here and on a couple of other forums). I have no doubt that when he says something works, it's because he and the other instructors at the school have seen it. I train under Jeff, and Dan Strametz, in Krav Maga. I hope you get a chance to meet and train some Krav Maga with them. I imagine you would be pleasantly surprised to find KM very effective when taught they way they teach it.

As for the UFC, as Jeff pointed out, KM focuses on "techniques" for neutralizing threats such as chokes, guns and knives. With out those threats, it's as they say, just a fight. All fighting styles are used and leveraged in KM combatives, as in the UFC. No need to rehash the diff between self defense and an ring/cage fight.)
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Old 08-24-2006, 05:16 AM   #83
Larry Lindenman
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Jay, yesterday I questioned why I chose to engage in an Internet argument. The answer I came up with was we have a lot of MIL/LEO on this board, there should be a counterpoint to closed mindedness. You as an aspiring warrior are risking your life by not being open to new information. I am not questioning the effectiveness of MAC, I'm questioning your all or none mindset. I have learned from criminals, frauds and from recognized experts. It's what you pull from them not necessarily what they are showing you. Your dismissal of an entire martial arts system is ridiculous and close minded. Jay, I'm glad your excited about your skills and about the art you practice. Do you understand no one art has everything? By developing a system, at some point, you are excluding something. If you keep an open mind, you may find a technique or a mindset that saves your life. I don't swear allegiance to one system, because my life depends upon my skills...why limit those skills? I would love to see MAC, train with a skilled practitioner, read the manuals, etc. We each become our own personal warrior, we bring our experiences and weaknesses into the game, be open and you will grow and reduce those weaknesses. By the way, close mindedness is a huge weakness, which is regularly exploited by the enemy. I learned weapon transition drills (the one you postulated was good for LEO only) from Navy Special Warfare personnel who specialize in CQB and hostage rescue. A similar Army unit later reinforced this technique. The transition takes 1 second from click to boom, if trained.
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Old 08-24-2006, 07:07 AM   #84
Kris Crowley
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Your post is very insightful and I agree with it.
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:55 AM   #85
Jeremy Jones
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Martial arts are like weapons/inanimate objects; their effectiveness in a fight is a direct result of the user.

A sword, fist, pistol, tank, bottle, pen, M249, car, etc, are only effective in imposing will when used by a person who has some semblance of how these ‘objects’ work. Aggression goes a long way in all cases, as does skill, but it is the combination of the two that truly maximizes the effectiveness.

Some ‘objects’ will be more effective for some people. Some ‘objects’ will be more effective for some situations. Currently, it is impossible to judge every combination, but it is possible to rule out many scenarios in our everyday life.

Can you judge the effectiveness of an ‘object’ based solely on your experience of other similar ‘objects’? It is possible, but your judgment cannot be complete until you have been trained fully about that object. It is impossible to judge the effectiveness of ANY ‘object’ until you have mastered at least one.

That being said (and getting back to topic). . .

Krav Maga (or any ‘Reality Based’ fighting system) in the ring is similar to comparing someone with a gun vs an MMA fighter. They are very different – they are looking for different outcomes, they use different techniques, the mindset is different, the strategy is different. The ‘style’ of MMA has been shaped by the rules it has to follow. It is designed to “win” when following those rules (i.e. striking the head repeatedly in the UFC will achieve a “win” regardless of the condition of the opponent).

Now if your question is: Will someone who has ‘mastered’ Krav Maga achieve victory against an MMA fighter in the ring following their rules – The answer is with proper training, it is possible.

Now if you reverse the question: Will someone who has ‘mastered’ MMA achieve victory against a Krav Maga fighter outside of the ring without rules – The answer is the same: with proper training, it is possible.

If your question is: Is Krav Maga an effective fighting style? (this would be if you considered MMA the “end-all be-all” fighting style) – The answer is yes, when it is taught properly it is very effective for what it portents to teach.

Now for the life lesson:

Before you ‘judge’ something; Master a few things of your own, learn something about everything else. Forget it all, and do it all over again.

Then you MIGHT be able to judge. MAYBE.
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Old 08-24-2006, 11:43 AM   #86
Mike Kirkpatrick
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As far as Krav Maga in the UFC or Pride,

I think that the best fighter will win. Let's say that Fighter A is a MMA fighter and Fighter B is a Krav Maga fighter. If Fighter A has mastered his art more, has a higher fitness level, has more experience, and has a better strategy, he will win. If the tables are turned and Fighter B (KM guy) is the guy who has mastered his art more, has a higher fitness level, has more experience, and has a better strategy, he will win. THE BETTER FIGHTER WILL ALWAYS WIN, not the better style.
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Old 08-24-2006, 12:11 PM   #87
Daniel Foster
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I could not agree more with you Mike. When it comes down to the ring the better fighter will always win. " chance favors the prepared mind"
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Old 08-24-2006, 08:01 PM   #88
Brad Kohler
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I think for self defense Tony Blauer is definately one of the ways to go. Along with learning your combatives and ground fighting(which many hybrid systems are borrowing techniques from one another) he takes it another step and focuses on the pshycology of an attack/fight.
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