CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2010, 03:02 AM   #1
Dayne Williams
Member Dayne Williams is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Auckland  New Zealand
Posts: 4
Complex Training for Power

Is there any set protocol for increasing power with the whole complex training method? Like I mean do you guys believe in performing heavy 4-5 reps of 3RM bench press lifts immediately followed by explosive body weight push ups or a certain resistance load and rest period etc?

I have just been looking at some studies done with complex training and they all show that performing a plyometric exercise immediately after the heavy resistance exercise makes you perform badly (although the idea of complex training is for long term adaptations), however these were just acute studies. They all pretty much recommend waiting some time after the resistance exercise for the whole post activation potentiation phenomenon e.g. 4 minutes rest for a 4-15 'window of opportunity' for a improved lift etc (obviously depending on your training status / experience etc).

One of the only chronic studies I was looking at is;
Robbins et al. (2009). Effects of agonist-antagonist complex resistance training on upper body strength and power development

[Abstract] The objective of this study was to examine the chronic effects on strength and power of performing complex versus traditional set training over eight weeks. Fifteen trained males were assessed for throw height, peak velocity, and peak power in the bench press throw and one-repetition maximum (1-RM) in the bench press and bench pull exercises, before and after the eight-week programme. The traditional set group performed the pulling before the pushing exercise sets, whereas the complex set group alternated pulling and pushing sets. The complex set training sessions were completed in approximately half the time. Electromyographic (EMG) activity was monitored during both test sessions in an attempt to determine if it was affected as a result of the training programme. Although there were no differences in the dependent variables between the two conditions, bench pull and bench press 1-RM increased significantly under the complex set condition and peak power increased significantly under the traditional set condition. Effect size statistics suggested that the complex set was more time efficient than the traditional set condition with respect to development of 1-RM bench pull and bench press, peak velocity and peak power. The EMG activity was not affected. Complex set training would appear to be an effective method of exercise with respect to efficiency and strength development.

Robbins discussed (correct me if im wrong) that the plyometric exercise following the resistance is more of a fatiguing stimulus promoting strength gains, not so much power.

Do you guys use complex training? What are your thoughts? For power development that is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 04:56 PM   #2
Nolan Womack
Member Nolan Womack is offline
 
Nolan Womack's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Troutdale  OR
Posts: 103
Re: Complex Training for Power

531 has up'd my maxes dramatically.

There's been a few studies done regarding the use of supramaximal holds and negatives which have had positive effects on ability to lift more, you could give those a try.
I've always been under the impression that Power is best developed by training in the 1-3 rep range, with about 4-5min between sets, and you can use either DE or ME, similar to the way WSBB programs, but instead of having a separate day for each, you would do both in the same with half the sets of each.
__________________
M|19|186
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 06:59 PM   #3
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Complex Training for Power

Complex training doesn't necessarily include a plyometric exercise after a compound which works similar muscles? Where did you get that idea?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 07:02 PM   #4
Nolan Womack
Member Nolan Womack is offline
 
Nolan Womack's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Troutdale  OR
Posts: 103
Re: Complex Training for Power

If you're wanting to use Plyometrics in search for a complex method to increase power, then the best way I've found, and have tested on my clients, is to use them before you do you lift, with about a minute rest between or so.
__________________
M|19|186
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 08:46 PM   #5
Dayne Williams
Member Dayne Williams is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Auckland  New Zealand
Posts: 4
Re: Complex Training for Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Complex training doesn't necessarily include a plyometric exercise after a compound which works similar muscles? Where did you get that idea?
Are you saying it can be antagonist / agonist complex? Give an example?

I didnt say it has to, although it is quite widely used like that.. a good example;
rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym25.htm
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 08:47 PM   #6
Dayne Williams
Member Dayne Williams is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Auckland  New Zealand
Posts: 4
Re: Complex Training for Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolan Womack View Post
If you're wanting to use Plyometrics in search for a complex method to increase power, then the best way I've found, and have tested on my clients, is to use them before you do you lift, with about a minute rest between or so.
The plyometric exercise before the resistance exercise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolan Womack View Post
531 has up'd my maxes dramatically.

There's been a few studies done regarding the use of supramaximal holds and negatives which have had positive effects on ability to lift more, you could give those a try.
I've always been under the impression that Power is best developed by training in the 1-3 rep range, with about 4-5min between sets, and you can use either DE or ME, similar to the way WSBB programs, but instead of having a separate day for each, you would do both in the same with half the sets of each.
I understand there are many other methods but im specifically looking at complex training with contrasting loads

Last edited by Dayne Williams; 06-19-2010 at 08:50 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 09:13 PM   #7
Nolan Womack
Member Nolan Womack is offline
 
Nolan Womack's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Troutdale  OR
Posts: 103
Re: Complex Training for Power

Dayne, you are correct (about putting plyos before resistance). If you think about the different types of muscle fibers, and their functions (endurance, bursts, etc). It's a trick I learnt during my bodybuilding days, I believe through the "Holistic Hypertrophy Program". However, Christian Thibaudeau, wrote an article on tnation here:
Continuum Training WFS
Where he suggests a more detailed approach then just plyos before or after.
__________________
M|19|186
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 09:25 PM   #8
Dayne Williams
Member Dayne Williams is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Auckland  New Zealand
Posts: 4
Re: Complex Training for Power

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of exciting the nervous system by using the resistance first ?

Cheers for link, will take a look through it
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2010, 09:40 PM   #9
Nolan Womack
Member Nolan Womack is offline
 
Nolan Womack's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Troutdale  OR
Posts: 103
Re: Complex Training for Power

It depends if you're using them as a superset or as a circuit.

Doing one and then immediately doing the other will decrease the production of the latter movement. But, if you're doing one, taking a 60sec break, doing the next, taking a 60sec break (break length may need to vary but I believe 60sec is recommended), and repeating, then your nervous system will still get the excitement you want it to.
__________________
M|19|186
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2010, 12:02 PM   #10
Nolan Womack
Member Nolan Womack is offline
 
Nolan Womack's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Troutdale  OR
Posts: 103
Re: Complex Training for Power

Here's another article I found on a different site:
Power Training for Sport WFS
This should help with programming for power, maybe make it less complex, since most the times simplifying produces better results then complicating.
__________________
M|19|186
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roadbike power training Kurt A Gross Fitness 6 07-30-2009 08:04 AM
Power Training? Sean J Hunter Fitness 15 07-07-2009 08:28 PM
Using medicine balls for power training Andrew Saltz Fitness 8 06-04-2009 05:08 AM
Jonathan Chaimberg (UFC trainer) complex training Rafael Garcia Fitness 5 08-20-2008 05:42 PM
Speed/power training Andy Armstrong Exercises 13 05-29-2008 04:29 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:19 PM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.