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Old 09-29-2012, 02:27 PM   #11
Clint Harris
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

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Originally Posted by Pearse Shields View Post
As a fighter, if I train the way I'm going to fight, I'm not going to have a long career. It takes up to 8 weeks to build up to 6 minutes of action in the ring.

Intensity is another controllable variable that helps you to achieve your goals in the most efficient manner possible. Trying to sustain maximum intensity over a long period of time is extremely ill-advised (yes, even with a rest once every 4 days...).

Put it this way: many people see success with Russian squat programs (Smolov, Sheiko, etc). Now, why do people not just run these programmes all the way through their training? Hell, you get a couple of rest days in these programmes, right? The answer is that their CNS simply cannot handle it. If you try and push as hard as possible all the time, you will crash and burn.
Pearse, did you ever play Rugby at school ? The guys that got hurt most were the ones that went into a tackle half-assed during practice. There's more than one way to look at this.
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:42 PM   #12
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

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Pearse, did you ever play Rugby at school ? The guys that got hurt most were the ones that went into a tackle half-assed during practice. There's more than one way to look at this.
I didn't play rugby, but I would imagine that going into a tackle isn't 100% of what you do in practice, and I seriously doubt that the rest of the time is really spent at max effort.

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Old 09-29-2012, 03:09 PM   #13
Pearse Shields
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

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Pearse, did you ever play Rugby at school ? The guys that got hurt most were the ones that went into a tackle half-assed during practice. There's more than one way to look at this.
Nope, but I know many rugby players who've had to have knee surgeries, physio for hamstring injuries, and so on. Many of these injuries could be avoided by taking time off every now and then. And of course you'll get hurt if you half-*** a tackle against a guy who's going 100%, doesn't take a genius to see that, same as if I spar at 100% against a guy who's not going 100%, someone's going to get hurt, and it isn't going to be me.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:18 PM   #14
Clint Harris
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

So next time I do 20 push-ups, I'll be sure to do them all one at a time.

You train with full intensity. When you run from one side of the field to the other, you do it as quick as you can. When the ball is on the ground, you go get it as fast as you can - otherwise you're practicing getting there last. When you run into a crash pad, you do it at full speed otherwise the guy holding the bag will knock you backwards, flat on your back. You go full intensity like you are going to play. Practice is will also determine if you will be warming the bench or starting with the whistle, so giving it 80% will probably mean you'll be sitting on the bench. You train a couple of times a week like this, have a game and the rest of the time may be skills (like kicking passing) and resting. Sounds really familiar.
This is not recklessness or stupidity like sparring with a lesser opponent and beating into a bloody pulp, it's approaching what you are training for as if it were the game.
There is no "game" in crossfit either - it's working out. Go at it with high intensity and rest when you need too. The "metcon wod" is the fight or the game. That's why we have rest days .... go at the wod hard - giving it max effort, then listen to your body and rest.

The original problem here was someone being puffed after a wod - not they can't stand up straight because they went AFAP 14 days straight aka stupidity.

Look at "crossfit" programming. It's something like a rest day, then some sort of metcon where one will go hard, then it might be 5x3 Weights were you lift as much as you can, then another metcon so go hard. Now it's rest day again. I'm sorry, but if crossfit is your game and you want to get something from it, you approach this like it is the game. Full intensity.

And Pearse, really ? Surgery for knees and hamstrings and stuff. You want to play that card - don't fighters die, get in comas, break noses, bones, hands, cuts, concussion, punch drunk, Parkinson's disease etc too ? And that's not even from training. It's not a valid card to play IMHO. All sports are plagued with that type of thing. Most of those injuries are not from training. It's just wear on the body over time and physical contact. Even netballers have to have knee and Achilles surgeries.

Anyway, whatever. I'm not even sure why I'm tapping into this little window. But I firmly believe there's too much bubble wrap around.

Last edited by Clint Harris : 09-29-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:52 PM   #15
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

There's no need to be condescending about it, Clint. There is no requirement that we agree with you. There is, however, a requirement for "a high level of respect to be shown at all times to other users of the board. "

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Old 09-30-2012, 12:16 AM   #16
Pearse Shields
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

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Originally Posted by Clint Harris View Post
The original problem here was someone being puffed after a wod - not they can't stand up straight because they went AFAP 14 days straight aka stupidity.
The original problem was not being able to talk after each training session (not just puffing, but being unable to actually form coherent sentences).

When you talk of train as you play, did your every training session involve a full game?

If you want to get the most out of your training, you vary the intensity, include skills work to fix the things you're weak on, and plan ahead. Correct?

Also, when you say "CrossFit" programming, with regards to CF.com, there is no real programming. This was established in a thread a while ago on these forums. And, nobody at the best level follows that programming.

Edit: Also, this isn't about bubble-wrapping or protecting people. It's about getting the most out of your training, by training as efficiently as possible.
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Last edited by Pearse Shields : 09-30-2012 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:56 AM   #17
Alexis Mascitti
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

OK, had to poke my physician nose in this one.

I'm new around here, so sorry if I'm being wussy or whatever, but I just have to give my professional opinion:

This is NOT a good sign. The symptoms you are describing are consistent with TIA, or transient ischemic attack. You might hear it called a "mini-stroke." Parts of your brain are transiently starved for oxygen, causing the symptoms you are describing. The speech thing? Its called aphasia. This can be caused by any number of things, but please, please, PLEASE at least see a doctor who can make sure your blood pressure and heart valves are ok before doing something this intense again. Back off a little, at least until you make sure everything's ok.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:59 AM   #18
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

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Originally Posted by Clint Harris View Post
What ever happened to train the way you're going to play ? Is everyone wrapped in bubble wrap nowadays ? Not just the kids?

What are rest days for ? This 3 on 1 off stuff. Go Hard, Go Hard, Go Hard (but are probably tired), now rest so you can go hard, go hard, go hard etc.
Sure, listen to your body but going in to half-azz a workout .... what's the point in that ?
So by that logic, an Olympic 1500m runner would train by doing nothing but 1500m repeats at 100% effort 6 days a week. And Kobe Bryant would be doing things wrong by being fanatical about his footwork and technique drills--he should be doing nothing but fullcourt 5 on 5 every day.

I do play rugby--not at a high level by any means, but I play with several guys who have--and it's simply not smart to train for a weekly 80 minute game by having nothing but full-speed contact drills. Yes, you need to do some full-speed rucking and tackling and mauling, but it can't be the sole focus of your training. Why do you think college and NFL teams practice in shorts and helmets so much? Why do you think teams use different S&C approaches for in-season vs. offseason? If you threw an offseason lifting program on top of all the game and practice contact, players would fall apart in a hurry.

Injuries will always happen in games or competition because guys tend to play at 100%, so there's no way around having a certain number of game injuries. But if you have full-contact practices every day, and you have 5x as many practices as games, then it's pretty reasonable to assume you'll have ~5x as many practice injuries as game injuries. Any coach who allows that to happen is going to get fired pretty quickly.

Same thing with CF or any other type of S&C program. Training is not competition, regardless of how many CF coaches say that having the best time/score on the whiteboard is the highest If you treat every day as a competition, then (absent freakish genetics) you're going to break down a lot faster than someone who knows how to separate training days from game days.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:14 PM   #19
Clint Harris
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

That is not my logic and no where have I said that you do this 5+days a week. No where. Not even in the piece you quoted of me.

It has nothing to do with the volume of work - it's about how you approach the work you are about to do --as you would play. When you ruck and tackle, do it as if you are playing. When you run 100m, sprint 100m not jog. It doesn't mean you practice 80mins or rugby to play 80 mins of rugby, nor does it mean a 1500m runner does nothing but 1500m each time.
How this related to crossfit is when we do our 5-15 minute metcons, or do our heavy lifts we approach them fully. If you can't then rest - there's no real point to just going through the motions. Even when the wod calls for a emom 10 @ 70%. That's not as fast as you can go, but you approach it will full intensity ... just like you'd play (or in this case, do 100% lift).

My impression from these other ideas is that we should be going slowly through our wods because we might get tired or something. pssshhhhtttt.

Last edited by Clint Harris : 09-30-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:46 PM   #20
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Can't talk straight after WOD

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Originally Posted by Clint Harris View Post
My impression from these other ideas is that we should be going slowly through our wods because we might get tired or something. pssshhhhtttt.
Fine. Go sustain true max effort for 100% of your workouts for the rest of your life. Report back.

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