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Old 10-11-2010, 05:46 PM   #161
Troy Becker
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
Pregnancy is an admin consequence of an integrated military. The women just pay the consequences takes 2 to tango though.
No argument there.

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
Examples of persecution that resulted in a guilty verdict?

We hold ourselves to a different standard, them's the breaks
The very fact that, say, the four (or five?) SEAL/S put on trial for slapping a terrorist around a little WHILE apprehending him, whatever the verdict ends up being, demonstrates something very, very wrong with whoever it is making the decision to put these guys on trial. Good evidence showing that some soldiers lined up 20 civilians in front of an open grave and shot them in the backs is one thing... THAT is something completely different.
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:40 PM   #162
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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No argument there.



The very fact that, say, the four (or five?) SEAL/S put on trial for slapping a terrorist around a little WHILE apprehending him, whatever the verdict ends up being, demonstrates something very, very wrong with whoever it is making the decision to put these guys on trial. Good evidence showing that some soldiers lined up 20 civilians in front of an open grave and shot them in the backs is one thing... THAT is something completely different.
Since we're doing so much agreeing...

Because you may not know. Pregnant women go to shore jobs only for a period before, and a year after theiir child is born. Sometimes they're at skate jobs, someimes they're working pretty hard. To counter other things you've heard, I know no female Sailor who got pregnant just to avoid deployment. I know it happens, none of the women I work(ed) with did it.


In real life, I don't much care what happens to terrorists. But the standards are high for us. The Team guys who were charged refused Captains Mast (NJP) and forced a Court Martial. Once the charge was filed something had to happen. It was a junior guy who filed the charges. It was not a pure leadership fail. I agree it was BS though.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:04 PM   #163
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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In real life, I don't much care what happens to terrorists. But the standards are high for us. The Team guys who were charged refused Captains Mast (NJP) and forced a Court Martial. Once the charge was filed something had to happen. It was a junior guy who filed the charges. It was not a pure leadership fail. I agree it was BS though.
For those of us who aren't military... If someone is court-martialled and found not guilty, is that the equivalent of a civilian not guilty verdict? That is, what are the long term career consequences of being charged but acquitted?

Given the strategic catastrophe that was Abu Ghraib, there are very good reasons to have very low institutional tolerance for potential war crimes.

Katherine
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:04 AM   #164
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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For those of us who aren't military... If someone is court-martialled and found not guilty, is that the equivalent of a civilian not guilty verdict? That is, what are the long term career consequences of being charged but acquitted?

Given the strategic catastrophe that was Abu Ghraib, there are very good reasons to have very low institutional tolerance for potential war crimes.

Katherine
It's the same. In this case, there will be probably no career implications because the charges were generally considered to be bogus. NJP however they would have likely been guilty (everyone who goes to Captain's Mast is guilty usually) and that would have had career effects, but the punishment would have been less severe. They took a big risk.

"They" cut prisoners heads off on film, we take juvenile mean spirited pictures of them. The standards are different. Again, I don't care about terrorists, but I understand there's a PR war to be won here too.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:01 PM   #165
Rob St. Croix
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

[quote=Robert D Taylor Jr;854207]Since we're doing so much agreeing...

Because you may not know. Pregnant women go to shore jobs only for a period before, and a year after their child is born. Sometimes they're at skate jobs, sometimes they're working pretty hard. To counter other things you've heard, I know no female Sailor who got pregnant just to avoid deployment. I know it happens, none of the women I work(ed) with did it.

QUOTE]

let me add to this...I've had many pregnant Marines work for me and I can speak to this with some degree of experience:

1. Pregnancy only postpones deployment, doesn't get you out of it. As Taylor mentioned, they are only in an non deployable status for a year, after that they need to have a family care plan and be ready to deploy. If they have a husband then they are usually GTG, if not, the kid normally goes to the grandparents. If the husband goes also, then the kids again, go to Grandparents normally. I as a Commander tried to work with other Commanders, if its a duel military family, to not deploy both parents at once, normally by having them on opposite rotations. Sometimes though, this isn't possible.

2. Also, young service members (of any gender) maybe immature at times, but generally they are not stupid. They can do the math... six month to year deployment vs. 9.5 months pregnant and then have a kid to raise for the next 18 years AND possibly still being required to deploy after a year. If you want a kid, then GTG, but just to get out of a deployment? Not really going to happen, at least not very often and by that I mean it's rare.
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Last edited by Rob St. Croix : 10-12-2010 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:02 PM   #166
Rob St. Croix
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

Duplicate post.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:32 PM   #167
Jim Blackwell
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
For those of us who aren't military... If someone is court-martialled and found not guilty, is that the equivalent of a civilian not guilty verdict? That is, what are the long term career consequences of being charged but acquitted?

Given the strategic catastrophe that was Abu Ghraib, there are very good reasons to have very low institutional tolerance for potential war crimes.

Katherine
Legally, the non-guilty verdict should have about the same effect. However, everyone who ever rates on you or sits on a promotion board will know about the situation, and it could very easily sway them to pass you over for promotion, or rate you less than you would be rated under different circumstances. Shouldn't happen that way, but does. So yes, it most likely would have an affect on the individual's future career.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:29 PM   #168
Troy Becker
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
For those of us who aren't military... If someone is court-martialled and found not guilty, is that the equivalent of a civilian not guilty verdict? That is, what are the long term career consequences of being charged but acquitted?

Given the strategic catastrophe that was Abu Ghraib, there are very good reasons to have very low institutional tolerance for potential war crimes.

Katherine
Tell that to the Duke Lacrosse team players whose lives were ruined for years on end, and the reverberations of said ruining undoubtedly can be felt today. And they did what again? Oh yea, nothing- one of the accused wasn't even in the same place, as was undeniably provable.

Abu Ghraib was not the persecution I was referring to, although from what I hear (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), it was a lot bigger deal to US than THEM, because they're quite used to that sort of thing in the sandbox.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:46 PM   #169
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

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Abu Ghraib was not the persecution I was referring to, although from what I hear (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), it was a lot bigger deal to US than THEM, because they're quite used to that sort of thing in the sandbox.
"They" may be "used to that sort of thing," but the US claims to be different. Showing that we're not does NOT improve our global standing, and global standing matters.

I know you weren't referring to Abu Ghraib. I'm saying that it's probably helped drive an abundance of caution about such incidents.

But this is getting political and off-topic so I should probably stop now.

Katherine
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:40 AM   #170
Camille Lore
 
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Re: Military says You’re Too Flabby For CrossFit

Thanks for that. We don't allow political discussion on here, for obvious reasons.
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