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Workout of the Day Questions & performance regarding CrossFit's WOD

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Old 04-24-2010, 12:55 AM   #11
Ian Nigh
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

Talking to a couple different trainers, we all agreed that this WOD was intended to be done in around 5 minutes without dropping the weight at all. This is the intended stimulus, and the WOD should be scaled to preserve it. I scaled back to 50kgs (110lbs) and got it done in 6 minutes flat. Lost my grip a couple of times due to intense sweat (it is very humid here!) which probably cost me close to 1 minute in the end.

In any case, I am happy I scaled it to preserve the stamina and cardio-respiratory intensity intact, even though I know I could have done this RX'd in sets of 7 or 5 power cleans, which would have brought me close to 10 minutes.

Good crossfit coaches preserve the intended stimulus of the WOD, without letting people's ego get in the way. A good sign of this is when the entire class finishes in around the same time, despite very different loads.

edited for spelling.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:04 AM   #12
Ryan Webernick
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

Crossfit trainers have to do that. They're running a business and can't have an individual spend 45 minutes on a WOD they've allocated 20 minutes of a 1 hour class on.

Scaling is always going to be a personal preference. For me, the burpees killed me on this wod much more than the cleans. Even when gassed, if I pushed myself I could bang the cleans out. However the burpees were just horrible.

I did scale this workout, but instead of scaling down the weight, I scaled the reps of the burpees down to 10 per set. Finished in 7:41.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:43 AM   #13
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Nigh View Post
Talking to a couple different trainers, we all agreed that this WOD was intended to be done in around 5 minutes without dropping the weight at all. This is the intended stimulus, and the WOD should be scaled to preserve it. I scaled back to 50kgs (110lbs) and got it done in 6 minutes flat. Lost my grip a couple of times due to intense sweat (it is very humid here!) which probably cost me close to 1 minute in the end.

In any case, I am happy I scaled it to preserve the stamina and cardio-respiratory intensity intact, even though I know I could have done this RX'd in sets of 7 or 5 power cleans, which would have brought me close to 10 minutes.

Good crossfit coaches preserve the intended stimulus of the WOD, without letting people's ego get in the way. A good sign of this is when the entire class finishes in around the same time, despite very different loads.

edited for spelling.
Did they say that knowing the OPs stated goals of getting stronger and faster?

Again, 4 minutes vs 10 min, it's still a "short Wod"
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:59 PM   #14
Ian Nigh
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

If you are working on getting stronger, do SS, Westside, 5-3-1, or whatever.
If you want to crossfit and get stronger, do CFSB or CFFB.
If you want to work on strength AND still do this particular WOD, you are much better off doing something like working up to a 3 rep max on cleans before, resting a few minutes, then scaling the weight back to where you can do this WOD in around 5 minutes.

Why try and force a WOD to do something it is not intended to? 45 high speed reps with more than you can handle will not make you stronger, in fact it could easily make you weaker and slow down your recovery.

Preserve the intended stimulus of all WODs by scaling, this is key, and its not because trainers want to get everyone out at the same time, that's just BS.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:01 PM   #15
Josh Groves
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

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Originally Posted by Chris Puckett View Post
I have the strength to do this in 10 minutes or less, but the hang power cleans would turn into sets of 5-7, and the burpees would likely be split into two sets after the first round.

So my question is, would I get more power output out of this by backing the weight down to 95lbs and storming through under 5 minutes, or muscling out the heavier reps for a near 10 minute mark? Is the sub 5 minute workout at a lighter weight more power output than a 10 min+ workout at a heavier weight but slower time? my goal is just to get stronger & faster.

OPT talks a lot about this in his first cf radio appearance. I highly recommend it.
Scaling it down to 95 lbs will create higher power output because you're doing work considerably faster.

There's no one answer to this debate. I would recommend that you play around with it. You want to go faster this time? Cut the weight. Next time, do it as RX'd. Another time, go heavier than RX'd. You can play around with the weights and reps in the WOD's to target different results. That's part of the beauty of CrossFit programming, it's constantly varied. As long as you are cognizant of why you are doing a WOD a certain way, go for it!
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:17 PM   #16
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Nigh View Post
If you are working on getting stronger, do SS, Westside, 5-3-1, or whatever.
If you want to crossfit and get stronger, do CFSB or CFFB.
If you want to work on strength AND still do this particular WOD, you are much better off doing something like working up to a 3 rep max on cleans before, resting a few minutes, then scaling the weight back to where you can do this WOD in around 5 minutes.

Why try and force a WOD to do something it is not intended to? 45 high speed reps with more than you can handle will not make you stronger, in fact it could easily make you weaker and slow down your recovery.

Preserve the intended stimulus of all WODs by scaling, this is key, and its not because trainers want to get everyone out at the same time, that's just BS.
Sure, but who decides what the "intended stimulus is" is. Does Lauren G e-mail that to you? I guess I'm going to make the WOD do what I need it to do.
Stronger and faster as a goal will be best facilitated IMO by rxed in 10ish minutes, vice turning your workout into a physics problem.

The trainer timeline makes as much sense to me as the "should I scale this WOD until I can be done in 37 seconds, or if I use 22.8 pounds, I can produce 34546 Gigajoules of effort, and that's what counts" approach. But that's just me, enjoy your workout.
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Last edited by Robert D Taylor Jr : 04-24-2010 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:35 PM   #17
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

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Originally Posted by Josh Groves View Post
Scaling it down to 95 lbs will create higher power output because you're doing work considerably faster.

There's no one answer to this debate. I would recommend that you play around with it. You want to go faster this time? Cut the weight. Next time, do it as RX'd. Another time, go heavier than RX'd. You can play around with the weights and reps in the WOD's to target different results. That's part of the beauty of CrossFit programming, it's constantly varied. As long as you are cognizant of why you are doing a WOD a certain way, go for it!
This is an important point. No single workout is all that important in the grand scheme of things. Heavy and slow is a different stimulus than light and fast, but neither is "bad."

Katherine
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:27 PM   #18
Ian Nigh
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

I agree, neither is bad.
My point is if you want to get stronger, then follow the programming that will get you there. To improve on the 10 physical skills in a well-rounded way, I think following main site is a good path to success, scaling the weights to an appropriate level to maintain the intended stimulus.
If you want to focus on one aspect of fitness more (i.e: strength), you will have more success following a strength biased program rather than trying to shoehorn workouts to have a strength focus, its just counterproductive!

That being said, this workout could be scaled to become a short met-con to do after strength work. For me, I would probably scale the weight to 70kg, and do 7 HPC and 10 burpees with a 20kg vest. Makes more sense to me than just upping the weight but without adjusting the volume.
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:14 AM   #19
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Nigh View Post
I agree, neither is bad.
My point is if you want to get stronger, then follow the programming that will get you there. To improve on the 10 physical skills in a well-rounded way, I think following main site is a good path to success, scaling the weights to an appropriate level to maintain the intended stimulus.
If you want to focus on one aspect of fitness more (i.e: strength), you will have more success following a strength biased program rather than trying to shoehorn workouts to have a strength focus, its just counterproductive!

That being said, this workout could be scaled to become a short met-con to do after strength work. For me, I would probably scale the weight to 70kg, and do 7 HPC and 10 burpees with a 20kg vest. Makes more sense to me than just upping the weight but without adjusting the volume.
What shoehorning? The choices were doing the WOD as rxed or scaling down. Doing it rxed would obviously help his strength at the expense of conditioning at the >10 min level. We're not talking about making a WOD have a strength focus, we're using what's there. Who decides what the intended stimulus is?
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:59 PM   #20
Cody Reis
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Re: Friday 100423 question about speed vs. power

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
What shoehorning? The choices were doing the WOD as rxed or scaling down. Doing it rxed would obviously help his strength at the expense of conditioning at the >10 min level. We're not talking about making a WOD have a strength focus, we're using what's there. Who decides what the intended stimulus is?
I'm totally new to all this so feel free to just tell me to shut up an move on

For me, you can tell that the intended stimulus is to produce the higher power output. If you are breaking the into sets of 5 to 7 that would imply it's at least close to your 5 rep max. Would you ever do anywhere close to 9 sets of your 5 rep max on a lift? A program like that would likely hinder your strength gains rather than improve them.

But like I said, I'm new to all this and still trying to learn!
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