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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 06-15-2009, 11:46 PM   #1
Brett Thomas
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Your thoughts on a training program

Hey guys, just chucking a couple of ideas out there and would love to hear any sort of ideas, opinions and constructive criticism on the matter.

Since one of the main tenets of Crossfit is that you must practice movements regularly to be proficient at them and that you should practice to excel in a broad, general spectrum rather than a narrow, specialized field, and given that I've always preferred to be strong and fit, instead of just one or the other, I was hoping to acquire some help in putting together a training program, all in the hope that strengths are not emphasised and weaknesses are not left by the wayside... (here's looking at you Back squats ha ha)

I was thinking of keeping the 3 on 1 off training schedule, and then putting together a daily workout that consisted of practising a lift (DL, Snatch, Push Press etc.), doing the WOD, then practising an endurance (rough use of the word) exercise (DU's, rowing, running) and then later on in the day, practice a gymnastics movement (HSPU, pullups, L-sits). Obviously, depending on the WOD, I might have to modify the endurance practice or the lift practice, but the less mods needed, the better.
Also, I would go through every lift and change up the rep structure every time it came around, so starting at SS's 3x5, then going 5x3, finally 7x1, to focus not only on just practising the lifts, but hopefully increasing strength as well.

Therefore, the program would look something like this:

Day 1Day 2Day 3

Morning ║ Morning ║ Morning
Squat 3x5 ║ DL 3x5 ║ Press 3x5
CFWU ║ CFWU ║ CFWU
WOD ║ WOD ║ WOD
Practice DU's ║ Row 1000m ║ Run 5km

Evening ║ Evening ║ Evening
Practice Pullups ║ Practice HSPU ║ Practice Dips


I would then keep the rest day as a total rest day or as day to go for a walk or an easy cycle.
Any thoughts? Especially if I may have overlooked something.
And especially if I'm tinkering with things too much ha ha.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:47 PM   #2
Brett Thomas
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

Also, I wholeheartedly apologise for the shocking way way in which that program is presented, but it seems my computer illiteracy is catching up these days... sigh...
Just read between the lines... literally, actually ha ha.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:49 AM   #3
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

Looks like CFE with some str before WOD.

You'll have to see if you still have energy to be able to work PU, HSPU or dips in the evenings after the WOD earlier.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:10 AM   #4
Emily Mattes
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

That's a heck of a lot of volume, especially for a 3/1 program.

What does your current program look like? How old are you? How is your recovery rate on your current program? Are you accustomed to that level of volume? It looks like you're chasing a whole bunch of directions at once. It's a tempting goal for those of us who want to get better at everything quickly, but more often than not backfires in overtraining and injury, and we don't really improve in anything.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:43 AM   #5
Sean J Hunter
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

I've been doing a 2:1 3:1 Program.

MORNING
CF-Strength Bias (read: heavy lifts)
Std WOD (shorter / heavier is normally recommended)

EVENING
Stamina Volume Training
Cardio - CF-E or 30min LSD Rehab

I tell you this becuse
1) I am not working - no stress (just finished up a contract)
2) I am getting 9hrs sleep every night
3) And I'm watching my diet very very closely

My volume is similar to what you're suggesting and I need every ounce of the above rest etc and still often need a power nap in the afternoon and over the last 4 wks have missed 2 days due to illness probably brought on by over training.

I was advised that my program might have been to much, but I wanted to Black Box it as I had unique variables of no external pressure etc.

My gains have been fantastic over multiple areas, but still I would say I am at if not slightly above my maximum training resource.

Just some thoughts. You probably need to think about Periodization etc

HTH

Sean
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:27 AM   #6
Harley Jennings
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

Brett,

If you can hack that much volume in a three day cycle then my hat is off to you! I think you are too diluted over to many goals though.

Let's take your day three for example. Where is the focus?

The press? This could be a workout in itself, how heavy you going?

The WOD? If this is a short, CFSB type metcon I buy it, but certainly nothing like a Murph.

The 5k? If you have the steam to knock out a decent 5k time after all that, you didn't give your all at the press or the WOD.

I am not trying to knock you, for all I know you are a firebreather and could smoke me. I am just trying to give you perspective.

I would pick a goal: Get stronger, Get faster, or build endurance...and then pour 100% of my effort in to that goal.

Get where you want to be with that goal, and then move on to the next goal. Trying to do it all at once might just lead to overtraining and eventually an injury.

My .02
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:29 PM   #7
Brett Thomas
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
That's a heck of a lot of volume, especially for a 3/1 program.

What does your current program look like? How old are you? How is your recovery rate on your current program? Are you accustomed to that level of volume? It looks like you're chasing a whole bunch of directions at once. It's a tempting goal for those of us who want to get better at everything quickly, but more often than not backfires in overtraining and injury, and we don't really improve in anything.
Here's some details:

- I'm 22yo, 5'7, 84kgs
- My current program is whatever Coach throws out on the mainsite. I started Crossfit proper on 1 June 09.
- My recovery rate does concern me, not because I feel absolutely buggered for days afterwards, but because I feel I recover fully from the workouts within about 5mins of finishing. Also, the past two Saturdays I've done more than just the WOD, for example, doing a local CF facilty's WOD, then playing squash about an hour afterwards and then doing the mainsite WOD later on in the day, but only because of catching up with friends and the like. Fair enough, I do feel tightness every now and again a day or two after doing a workout with something like 100 pullups total but other than that, I feel up to the WOD each time it comes around. Now, saying that, I can quite imagine I might not actually put 100% into the workout, but I do try as hard as I can. I have found that I have A LOT of limiting factors... sigh...
- Here's where you'd probably laugh, I'm not too sure if I am actually accustomed to the volume... ha ha... but you never know if you don't try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley Jennings View Post
Brett,

If you can hack that much volume in a three day cycle then my hat is off to you! I think you are too diluted over to many goals though.

Let's take your day three for example. Where is the focus?

The press? This could be a workout in itself, how heavy you going?

The WOD? If this is a short, CFSB type metcon I buy it, but certainly nothing like a Murph.

The 5k? If you have the steam to knock out a decent 5k time after all that, you didn't give your all at the press or the WOD.

I am not trying to knock you, for all I know you are a firebreather and could smoke me. I am just trying to give you perspective.

I would pick a goal: Get stronger, Get faster, or build endurance...and then pour 100% of my effort in to that goal.

Get where you want to be with that goal, and then move on to the next goal. Trying to do it all at once might just lead to overtraining and eventually an injury.

My .02
Don't worry about knocking me, I asked for any thoughts. And trust me, I'm no firebreather. Fran made me realise that VERY quickly
I would say my goals are strength and fitness (wow, how vague is that!), and I suppose the WOD would take care of the fitness / endurance side of things depending on the WOD of course, and I should focus on the strength.
I won't beat around the bush, I'm nowhere near as strong as could be, and my lift numbers are pathetic but I know that perfect form is the keystone to going heavy, and my form has much room for improvement so I'm not going to sacrifice form and technique to go heavy, so that might be a reason why the lifts just don't burn me out.
I just ran the mainsite 5km today in 32:09, and I'm not going to even begin to assume that's a decent time. It does bring to light the glaring fact that I need to "practice" running more, but then where would I fit it in, if I eschew this program?

So... eventually getting to the heart of the matter, you guys make good points definitely, and I know you're right so how bout if I were to do:

Workout

Lift
CFWU
WOD

And nothing after that in the day?
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:32 AM   #8
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

If you can recover fully within five minutes either
(a) You're a fire breather. How are your times?
(b) You're lying to yourself about your recovery. Try doing the same WOD again within an hour or two and see what happens.
(c) You're lying to yourself about your intensity.

(c) is a hard one to test because no one else is inside your head. You might look like you're slacking, but actually feel like you're dying. Still, to get an idea of what intensity feels like, give Chelsea a shot:
* 5 Pull-ups
* 10 Push-ups
* 15 Squats

Each min on the min for 30 min

If you last 20 minutes, that's equivalent to a 20-round Cindy, which is pretty good.

Katherine
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Old 06-17-2009, 04:59 AM   #9
Júlíus Magnússon
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

I don't care who you are, that's WAY too much volume for ANYONE.

Less is more.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:21 AM   #10
Harley Jennings
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Re: Your thoughts on a training program

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Thomas View Post
Workout

Lift
CFWU
WOD

And nothing after that in the day?

Brett,

What you have here is CFSB. You are going to get strong by doing this as long as your diet/rest supports it.

When I read your reply to me I hear "I want to get strong", great goal, now decide how fast you want to get strong.

5k time will come man. There will be time to work on it once you are happy strength wise.

I am biased as you can tell. You could try to do it all. I just don't think you'll be happy with the end state man.
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