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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 09-27-2010, 10:47 PM   #11
Ted Apollo
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Re: evidence not to do more endurance work?

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Originally Posted by Om Puri View Post
from what i can tell you guys all recommend i get strong first (not mind getting a little chubby) and then lean out or 'cut' by adding met cons? is this my best route? so do i remain on pure strength programs like SS (3x5) and madcow (5x5). or do i achieve my goals via CFSB or CFFB?
thanks.

Om i remember your original post about your programming. what we talked about was you maximizing your linear strength gains (meaning that you get stronger every workout) using a strength program. once you can no longer see linear gains would be a sign that you are no longer in the novice stage of developement & you would benefit from a intermediate program like CFSB where the programing is based on making gains on a weekly basis. and there isn't any reason you couldn't be doing sprint work with your strength program right now.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:11 PM   #12
Jon Gregory
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Re: evidence not to do more endurance work?

I was talking purely from crossfit persepctive rather than elite endurance levels. Strength gains in crossfit normally cross over into endurance gains. I believe Rip wrote an article describing strength as the basis for endurance (can't find it though).
I think marathon runners are one of the few endurance athletes that don't get that much benefit from strength training. Cyclists and swimmers are good examples for crossfitters. You'll hardly find a single decent swimmer at any distance that doesn't regularly train strength.
For crossfitters, in my opinion, strength training comes first because its the foundation of pretty much everything else we do and once you have it it takes a long time to lose. The metcons can then be built up from that point.
I probably didn't explain what I meant very well in the first post, apologies. I didn't mean to suggest endurance was easy come easy go but reading my post again it is was I said!!
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:41 PM   #13
Mauricio Leal
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Re: evidence not to do more endurance work?

I hate to be a stickler but this idea comes up so much it's becoming some sort of truism: "endurance is easy come easy go," and endurance=metcon. The latter definitely not so, and the former being conventional wisdom but arguably wrong also. First of all, metcon by definition IS all three pathways. The extent to which it biases phosphagen or aerobic depends purely on the programming. Second, Rip/classical strength programming is based on this strength first conditioning later concept, but that has always been in the context of sport-specific training. That is, build strength and then develop the conditioning for your sport which is bound to be something very time domain restrictive, e.g. Football's 15/45 play/rest intervals. This seems ideal, but the problem in CrossFit is that the conditioning is totally open ended and deliberately unrestricted in time and modal domains (ok, there are not really any 30+ min WODs in the Games, so somewhat bracketed). This kindof conditioning is NOT trivial to develop, so assuming strength first is the best way is short-sighted. What's interesting to me is the journal article on the conjugate method and what that means in the greater context of CrossFit. Shouldn't the logical extension of the plateau/variance piece be that the CVFMPAHI prescription reigns supreme in this open ended fitness quest. Isn't that sort of the lesson of Holmberg's win?, i.e. work on your weaknesses. If you're already pretty strong, working on strength some more isn't the best return on investment. There are so many modal domains and energy pathway combinations, I think the missing piece for most people is tapping into all the permutations of these.
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Last edited by Mauricio Leal; 10-01-2010 at 05:45 PM..
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:59 PM   #14
Shane Skowron
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Re: evidence not to do more endurance work?

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Originally Posted by Jon Gregory View Post
Strength gains in crossfit normally cross over into endurance gains. I believe Rip wrote an article describing strength as the basis for endurance (can't find it though).


Strength is a basis for muscular endurance, not cardiovascular endurance.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:04 PM   #15
Jon Gregory
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Re: evidence not to do more endurance work?

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Strength is a basis for muscular endurance, not cardiovascular endurance.
Absolutely - which is what most crossfit MP endurance WODs call for, in my experience.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:33 PM   #16
Donald Lee
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Re: evidence not to do more endurance work?

Lactic endurance is easy come easy go. You can train it in about 2-4 weeks. However, maximal strength and aerobic endurance can have a large effect on lactic endurance, depending on where it falls on the endurance continuum.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:16 PM   #17
Donald Lee
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Re: evidence not to do more endurance work?

Adding on to that, athletes like Strongmen competitors would need much maximal strength work and a little bit of lactic work, although some may benefit from longer aerobic endurance work depending on the event.

Athletes like MMA fighters and 400m and 800m runners would need much aerobic work and alactic work. I'm not sure if many 400m and 800m runners do much lactic work, besides when they're peaking for competition.
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