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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-02-2009, 11:39 PM   #41
Joshua Murphy
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

1. How long did you do SS?
2. How much weight did you gain?
3. How did this weight break down muscle/body fat wise?
3a. How did you measure this?
4. What improvement did you see in your lifts?
5. How long did your workouts take near the end of your SS program?
6. Is there anything you would do differently if you tried SS or a similar program again?



1. Just finished week 8
2. As of today I gained about 20# (up to 250). I think I added about 10#'s in the last 2 weeks due to my "holiday season diet" I did not do GOMAD -although I probably drink 36oz of milk a day.
3. Probably 15# fat and 5# muscle
3a. Guessed/mirror
4. CFT of 1005 a month before starting (took 3 weeks off after). This week I started to stall, but I hit BS 3x360#, SP 3x5 145#, DL 3x445#. I think I will officially stall within the next 3 weeks. I will rest a few days, scale back 5-10% and push for more gains for a few more weeks. Once I stall a second time, I will rest and total again sometime in February and I think I will hit 1085-1100.
5. 90-120 minutes (total time at the gym, including warm-up and foam rolling at the end (and between squat sets)).
6. I would not use it as an excuse to eat whatever I wanted, as weight gain was not one of my goals. I would also consider using a different program (intermediate or Texas perhaps). Here is what I am doing now:
Mon:
Squat 3x5
Floor Press 3x5
Weighted Pullups

Tue:
Strongman training (stopped 7th week)

Wed:
Front Squat 3x3
Shoulder Press 3x5
Bent over Rows/Clean Shrugs 5x5 or so
Pullups

Thr:
Rest

Fri:
Squat 1x3
Floor Press 1x3
Deadlift 1x3
Max Pullups

Sat/Sun:
Rest or Muay Thai
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:47 AM   #42
Jeff Hines
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

1. Did SS for about 2.5 months with a week and half off due to elbow pain.

2. Gained about 8-9lbs via scale measurement for a total of 164lbs.

3. All muscle, lost a smidge of definition but nothing noticable. Used the mirror.

4. Lifts:
Squat = 135 to 255lb
Deadlift = 135 to 265lb
Bench = 150 to 197lb
Press = 105 to 132lb
Powerclean = 125 to 165lb
Although to be fair, I started off very conservatively. I feel like I only truly gained about 20 pounds of strength in the squat, 25lbs in the deadlift, 10lbs in the bench, 15lbs in the press, and about 10 lbs in the powerclean.

5. Workouts took about an hour towards the end.

6. Would prolly try to eat more. I found that drinking the milk was easy as long as I wasn't busy that day, but I'm not a huge eater, and the milk really supressed my appetite. I never did eat the recommended 4500+ calories per day.

* Also, I did CF for about 9 months before SS (with only 70lbs of weight for my bar), and I swear I have been bigger from CF. I realize I never ate as much as I should have. But I started to get bored, and never felt like the gains were as extensive as they should have been. After analyzing my performance numbers, I think at this point I should have moved on to an intermediate program anyhow and I think that CF put me at the end of the SS beginner program. So my results were less than could have been if I'd never worked out before. About a month later of no working out, all my weight gain is gone. About to start CF again, had way more fun with that.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:33 PM   #43
David Meverden
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

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Originally Posted by Ryan Whipple View Post
We're starting to get quite an accumulation of data points in this thread. It would be interesting to compile these numbers in some meaningful way, which would be a good project for me on a down day in the future. I'm all in favor of empirical data...any other SS vets want to get in on this?
It would be good to accumulate data but it will be inconsistent as people's starting weights differ drastically, and not everyone has reliable 1RM or 5RM data for objective comparison. 95# to 225# sounds great, but what if your original 5RM was 200?

Now my question: Various resources urge people to start off VERY conservatively in their lifts, but it seems that for quite short cycles (say 2 months) this is less important as linear progress does not need to be maintained for THAT long. So, if you were going to do 8 weeks of this program, with the GOMAD, how soon after you start do you want to hit your current max 3x5 squat weight? And do you guys recommend starting with lower weight and making big (10-15#) weight jumps, or start at a higher weight and make more conservative gains (5#)? I have seen people here doing both styles, so figure this will be a good place for input.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:19 PM   #44
Kyle McQuoid
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

1) 2.5 months

2) 30 lbs. 165-195 lbs. I'm 5'8".

3) Not sure, but some fat, some muscle, probably mostly muscle. I gained 30 lbs but I think I only grew 1-2" in the waist.

3a) Mirror/pants fits

4) 5RM's: Squat- 135 lbs- 265 lbs
Press- 65 lbs- 125 lbs
Bench- 125 lbs- 180 lbs
Deadlift- 250 lbs- 315 lbs

I didn't really do the clean a whole lot, but now I'm doing it and 110 lbs felt pretty damn easy last time. I'm hoping that cleaning consistently will lead to more gains in my other lifts.

5) 1.5-2 hours.

6) After basically taking November off, I've been on it again since Dec. 5 and now I'm not doing GOMAD anymore. My first couple weeks back I gained about 10 lbs and noticed that it seemed to be mostly fat, and since I'm already heavy enough, I've cut down to about 1/2 Gallon a day and I'm eating a little less. Hopefully I'll slim down a little and still be able to recover.

Also, really make sure you work extra hard on your form. I only got up to 125 lbs on my first go-round with my press before it got difficult. Now, on my second try, I think I've improved my form significantly, and 120 felt easy today. I think I still have a ways to go with linear progress on the press and bench.
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Old 01-05-2009, 12:38 AM   #45
Isaia Souza
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

Hey Ryan,

I did SS for about 5-6 (pretty sure it was 6) weeks with the GOMAD and gained 30 pounds. I started at 135ish 5'10 and ended up at 165. I've cleaned up my diet since then and am now at a solid 160. I honestly didn't gain too much fat, abs are still pretty defined. Much to the dismay of my mother, my waist did go from a size 29 to a 34.

I haven't done any 1RM testing yet, but my 3x5 squats went from 185 to 225. DL went from 225 3x5 to 260.

By then end my workouts were about and hour long but I was working out with my father so there was a good amount of talking going on... =]

If (and by if I mean when) I do SS again I will make sure that I do a good amount more prehab work on my problematic wrists (><) and probably have done more pullups.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:39 PM   #46
John Schroeder
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Interesting, John. Nice work. Wondering, though, it's very unusual for people to add so much weight to their lifts without much caloric excess. Were you regaining strength that you had at some point in the past? Did you have any idea what your max lifts were at the start?
I was regaining some strength, adding some new. Don't really have any way to sort which was which. The restrictions the doc placed on my workouts meant that the starting weights reported were limited by the weakest point - my repaired shoulder. As the shoulder healed, strength was added. My body composition did change rather drastically though. I can't quantify it reliably, but I would guess I traded about ten pounds of fat for muscle.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:27 AM   #47
David Meverden
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

1. How long did you do SS?
7 weeks
2. How much weight did you gain?
About 30 lbs. See below for more details
3. How did this weight break down muscle/body fat wise?
Dont know. Half and half? Maybe 10 lbs muscle 15 lbs fat and 5 lbs water? I was never fat as can be seen in the picture linked below.
3a. How did you measure this?
Total guess.
4. What improvement did you see in your lifts?
Lots on squats and deadlift, fair bit in others: See below.
5. How long did your workouts take near the end of your SS program?
Hour and a half or so.
6. Is there anything you would do differently if you tried SS or a similar program again?
Id drop the weight back properly after a stall instead of trying to power through. Maybe eat more if I could stomach it. Pretty much nothing else. Im quite happy with the results.





Program info

Did Rippetoes straight A day B day rotation. Three days a week switching between A days (squat, bench, deadlift) and B days (squat, shoulder press, power clean).

Only deviation from basic program was the addition of 3 sets of weighted pull-ups or chinups after A days. I kept rigidly to that program for 22 workouts: about 7 weeks.

I used 5 lbs increases for all lifts but deadlift, which I used almost all 10 lb jumps for.


Lifts

Tons of progress on Squats. Made it all the way to end without stalling, managing to improve my max 3x5 weight by 85 lbs in 7 weeks! Upper body lifting gains were more modest, but not shabby at all.

Format for the data is as follows:
Starting work set weight listed then [previous MAXIMUM work set weight is in brackets] ===>heaviest work set weight that I missed no more than 1 repetition with

Back Squat: 165 [205] ===> 290
Shoulder Press: 105 [115] ===> 145
Bench Press: 160 [170 ?] ===> 195
Power Clean: 140 [155 ?] ===> 185
Deadlift: 245 [275 ?] ====> 355
Pullups stayed approximately the same, which is excellent: got 16 strict pull-ups after Workout #1, got 17 strict pull-ups after workout #21 despite being about 30 lbs heavier.

1RM lifts did not go up as much as the 5 rep sets (probably not surprising as doing 5 rep sets 3 days a week leads to a high level of neurological adaptation) but Im still happy with them. My 1RM improvements were as follows:

Squat 265 ===> 315
Press 140 ===> 160
Deadlift 325 ===> 385
Bench Press ~195 ===> 225

CrossFit Total score: 730 ===> 860

Bodyweight

Gained around 30 pounds in 7 weeks. Went from lowest weight of 169 to highest weight of 201, all measured on the bathroom scale after waking up.
Clearly put on fat but it went on quite evenly and I was very happy with the weight gain. This is partly attributable to, Im sure, a suitable body type but I also attribute it at least somewhat to keeping the diet cleaner. See before and after bipanel picture located below if you want to see how my upper body changed. A lot of muscle was added to my legs and butt and, I think, my back, though I dont have pictures to show this well.

Classic bathroom mirror shot, haha:
http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m...pedsmaller.jpg (WFS only if a shirtless young man is acceptable at your workplace)

Also: Easy come easy go. Ive been off the 5000 kcal and back on CrossFit for about 2 weeks and have weighed in as low as 191 in the morning.

Diet
One gallon of whole milk per day, which I typically had no problems either consuming or digesting. Solid food was pretty clean eating. Lots of mixed nuts, fair bit of meat, fruit. Few refined carbohydrates, little refined sugar, and little processed food. As I was getting 260 grams of protein a day from food I took no protein supplementation. I used no shakes, no powders, and no supplements of any kind besides fish oil and an occasional multivitamin. I did get sick of eating after 5 to 6 weeks and started eating less clean by the end (some McDonalds sausage biscuit sandwiches, as well as a couple of frozen pizzas, did find their way into my stomach, haha).

Tracked my eating with fitday 41 out of 49 days.
Data gathered from fitday with some educated guesses about untracked days is shown below (tough to track a gorging at a Chinese buffet, haha, though I do know there was way more carbohydrates than usual). All values somewhat approximate. Id guess a possible error of 5 to 10%.

AVERAGE DAILY VALUES:
Calories: 5260
Fat consumption: 304 grams. 2730 calories. 52% of total calories.
Carbohydrate consumption: 370 grams. 1480 calories. 28% of total calories.
Protein consumption: 262 grams. 1050 calories. 20% of total.
Carbohydrates from grains (rice, bread, pasta, etc): ~75 grams. 6% total calories
Carbohydrates from refined added sugar (ex: sugar in ice cream): ~24 grams. 2% of total calories


Measurements

Flexed Thigh: 22 ====> 24.75 (legs are definitely more jacked now, and some of my pants are now very tight around the thighs)
Neck: 15 ====> 16 (shirt collars got uncomfortable)
Flexed arm: 13 ====> 14.25
Flexed chest: 40.5 ====> 43 (I think my lats may have swelled more than pecs)
Stomach measured around belly button: 30.5 ====> 34.5 (I think my abs got thicker in addition to the fat added)
Waist: ~31 ====> 33.5 (pants definitely too tight for comfort near the end)

Comments on program

Rippetoe knows his stuff. The program worked great. I never stalled on squats, which blows my mind. I cant believe I did 3x5 squats at 290 my last workout! I stalled a little right at the end on shoulder press and I stalled HARD on benchpress but that was partly because I didnt follow the prescription (i.e. instead of dropping back in weight after the initial failed workout I tried to redo it and just power through. Epic fail. Oh well). If Id have done more weeks Id have dropped back on both upper body lifts 10 or 15 lbs and then climbed back up. Id have also reset squats a little as my form was starting to deteriorate.

Other observations: I was most sore in my chest the week I failed to make any improvement. I also started stalling in my lifts shortly after my weight gain slowed. If Id upped the calories from 5k to 6 or 7 would I have gotten 5 or 10 lbs more on my upper body lifts? Hmm.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:18 PM   #48
Bryan Back
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Whipple View Post
I am trying to put together my own personal lessons learned from my SS experience, and I'd like to get some feedback from others who have done Starting Strength along with a Gallon of Milk a Day. This is for my own personal edification as well as to gather advice I can pass along to others.

1. How long did you do SS?
2. How much weight did you gain?
3. How did this weight break down muscle/body fat wise?
3a. How did you measure this?
4. What improvement did you see in your lifts?
5. How long did your workouts take near the end of your SS program?
6. Is there anything you would do differently if you tried SS or a similar program again?

This is in the spirit of the "Black Box." Compiling experimental/experiential data on a program helps everyone learn, so I really appreciate any responses I get!
1. Did SS for 5 weeks
2. 20 pounds half of it was fat (I added only a 10 min row and no wods MISTAKE. I should have added at least two wods after 3 weeks.
3. mirror and past experience
4. three weeks in my 1RM became my 5RM
5. about an hour
6. Add the wods during week 3. Add chins/pulls right up front (my weakness) Would have only did the squat twice a week after week 3. I'm older and the knees started becoming a problem as the weight got up there (Rip suggested this and I didn't do it...tsk tsk tsk)
I think I could have continued with the program for three to five more weeks if I had done the above and made more gains.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:00 PM   #49
Timothy Bartee
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Post Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

1. How long did you do SS?
2. How much weight did you gain?
3. How did this weight break down muscle/body fat wise?
3a. How did you measure this?
4. What improvement did you see in your lifts?
5. How long did your workouts take near the end of your SS program?
6. Is there anything you would do differently if you tried SS or a similar program again?

1. 6 months (still doing it)
2. 20# (225-245)
3. Pretty even split
3a. Guess
4:
Work sets x5

squat 135 - 265
bench 175 - 250
deadlift 315 - 412
press 95 - 150
chin/pullus: 11/15 stayed about the same

5. 75 min. +
6. More attention to detail in diet. I basically just eat a lot and try to get enough protein.

M/41/6'3"/245#
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:35 PM   #50
Caleb Whitfield
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Re: Questions to all who have done Starting Strength+GOMAD

Thanks for all the info. As someone looking to do a SS cycle this is some very valuable stuff.
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