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Old 10-10-2008, 05:25 PM   #171
Kawika Bennett
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

That guy is a PUSS plain and simple.
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:29 PM   #172
George Mounce
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

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Originally Posted by Kawika Bennett View Post
That guy is a PUSS plain and simple.
Amazingly ignorant comment.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:09 AM   #173
Dustin Standel
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

For those of you who might not of seen the results, this was on the Navy Times website a couple of days ago:

Quote:
Ex-sailor wins lawsuit over CrossFit workout

The Associated Press
Posted : Thursday Oct 9, 2008 12:23:59 EDT

MANASSAS, Va. A former Navy information systems technician has been awarded $300,000 after suing a Manassas gym over an exercise program he says left him permanently disabled.

Makimba Mimms, 29, of Bristow says the CrossFit workout he did in 2005 caused him to urinate blood and his legs to swell.

Mimms sued Manassas World Gym, where he did the workout; Ruthless Training Concepts, a CrossFit affiliate at the time; and a Ruthless employee who administered the workout. A Prince William County jury found all three defendants liable Wednesday.

The CrossFit program is popular in law enforcement and military circles but has been criticized as dangerous. It involves timed, high-intensity strength training with little or no rest or water between sets.
Being in the USN and involved in CrossFit for a couple of months, I tangentially followed this case whenever I saw it in the news. For my two cents, it seems the guy was fairly unconditioned and probably had a higher susceptibility to this kind of condition than the general population. However, we also don't know what he did around the same time as the WOD that may have contributed to this condition. None of this waives the trainer from his responsibility to be vigilant and aware of the condition of the guy being trained. I wasn't in the courtroom and didn't hear the evidence that the trainer was in anyway negligent of his responsibilities, so I won't take sides.
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Old 10-11-2008, 04:18 AM   #174
John Frazer
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

Sean,

Was the jury instructed on contributory negligence?
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Old 10-11-2008, 08:30 PM   #175
Brian De Mio
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

It would be nice to see the actual facts of this case to help current and future trainers. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the people that train and compete in Crossfit. That being said I think its critically important that legal and ethical issues are further strengthened within this system. What are some potential complications associated with the decision in this case? How are affiliates going to protect themselves and their clients to avoid these issues in the future?

Remember that it makes no difference how you feel about this gentleman who brought up a lawsuit. There are many things that can predispose a person to rhabdo. Not just exercise. What matters is that the jury or judge ruled that the affiliate and its trainers were liable and had a responsibility to this individual.

There are many dedicated and devoted members to Crossfit and its a closeknit community unlike anything I've seen in my lifetime. It appears to me that many see this as a betrayal to the community.

Personally I believe that knowing the facts in this case and not hearsay or rumor would better benefit the Crossfit realm.

There is also another issue that should probably be addressed with affiliate members. In the beginning there was essentially a smaller unique group of people willing to do this program. Crossfit is exploding across the country right now and its pulling in a lot of folks who have no experience, knowledge, or training in fitness. This changes things. They are even more susceptible to injury and fatigue than the elitist groups or even the basic fitness individual. I'm not sure that training even in a scaled down manner is appropriate in all cases. That is not to say that they can't be trained. Certainly a body can adapt but you take an individual with years of inactivity and he has to be even more careful. Teaching them that pushing their limits is a good thing but starting out probably needs more than a scaled down workout. A medical history and physical would be a good start. Knowing all the causes of rhabdo and the other potential problems that could occur are essential to help avoid a lawsuit.

Most of us know that rhabdo occurs as a result of excessive muscle use. But what if it occurs in your workspace due to another cause? How many of you know what conditions and medications may contribute? I can promise you that if you question each and every client a fair percentage of them will have some of the conditions or be on the medications listed below. How many of you insist on a physical exam and medical history? Even a specific questionnaire can help tremendously.

Example:
John Doe is a 30 something male who, through friends, has heard about Crossfit. He has tried some of the workouts with friends but wants some structured training. His past medical history is significant for hypertension and hypercholesterolemia. He is taking Hydrochlorothiazide (diuretic) and zocor.
He is about 20 pounds overweight and has never really been an avid fitness buff. His day consists of 8 hours of computer work with the evening spent watching televesion. His diet is based mostly on restaurant foods and snacks at the machines. He is fairly stressed in his life and wants a change. Now, you have an unfit individual taking two drugs which can contribute to rhabdo. Do you exert him/her and see what happens? What are your policies concerning these folks? What if you found out that his father and grandfather died of a sudden heart attack in their mid 30's? Do you even question family medical history too?

Here is a condensed list of Rhabdomyolosis etiology. The actual list is even more comprehensive than this.

Rhabdo causes:

1. crushing injuries
2. shock
3. long periods of confinement such as hospitalizations (various causes)
4. overexertion
5. electrolyte abnormalities
6. several inherited genetic abnormalities
7. thrombosis
8. pulmonary embolism
9. alcohol use
10. alcohol withdrawal (how many folks have drank heavy the night before a workout?)
11. sepsis
12. cocaine, XTC, pcp, methamphetamines
13. high cholesterol medications called statins (lot of folks take these meds)
14. some antipsychotic meds (many folks on these meds)
15. any drug that interferes with potassium (particularly some blood pressure medications called diuretics can do this)
16. Infections (multiple different contributors)
17. autoimmune disorders

How many folks ask their clients if they have or had these conditions or medications? What about all the other medical syndromes and diseases out there? Are those addressed?

Today the world of the athletic trainer is very complex. I believe that the majority that choose to athletically train others have a genuine respect for and care about others. Protecting them requires more than just knowing how to do an oly lift or a proper pullup. It requires knowledge in multiple realms. The athletic trainer needs to know medical, legal, ethical, and fitness issues. It can't be done alone and requires teamwork. This community has a wealth of knowledge and backgrounds. It will be interesting to see how it goes.
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Old 10-11-2008, 08:53 PM   #176
George Mounce
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

^ Excellent, excellent post Brian.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:30 PM   #177
Emily Maisannes
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

I still don't understand why the trainer/affiliate/gym were ultimately found liable for the rhabdo. I have been me for 29 years. When I first walked into my affiliate, Steve and Sue had known me for 10 minutes. Sure, they're the fitness professionals, but all they can do is encourage me to lift more and remind me to complete the workout safely. Ultimately, I make my own decisions, and I make those decisions based on how I feel. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. There have been times when I have heard, "Keep pushing!" but I still stop to take a 10 second break because my body is telling me I need it. What gives?
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Old 10-12-2008, 02:53 AM   #178
Jay Cohen
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

Brian;

Very well stated.

I recommended a close friend to a very respected strength coach that trains out of an Orthopedic rehab center. After chatting a few minutes, he had a staff member take his blood pressure(was some ridiculous high #), found out he'd hadn't been taking his BP med's, told him to come back when his personal physician approved via writing his OK to start.

As to Lawsuits, it''s inevitable, wait until CF trainers start filing Disability claims for on the job injuries and the CF affiliates have to purchase and maintain that added cost to their operating expenses.

Welcome the the world of the small independent business owner just trying to provide a great service and make a few bucks. Very hard to do today.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:20 AM   #179
Howard Wilcox
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

In a similar vein as Emily, this is mind-boggling to me as there is no real warning sign that it is happening, right?? If you can't know in advance and it is very random (apparently), how can you be negligent??

I don't get it.

howard
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:29 PM   #180
Kawika Bennett
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

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Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
Amazingly ignorant comment.

Yes it is an amazingly ignorant comment, on the surface. But i know the very intricacies of the case. So it is not an ignorant comment.
Have a nice day.
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