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Old 08-19-2008, 04:55 AM   #91
George Mounce
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

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Originally Posted by Lewis Dunn View Post
Really? Citations?
Here is an example - I watch a lot of Discovery Channel - Human Body: Pushing the Limits (one of the most amazing shows thats been on TV). Specifically the episode on strength, where the man basically bench presses a 1200 pound rock and ruptures his arms and chest and doesn't know it until the endorphins give out.

All links (wfs).

I found it on youtube :

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb-SZ...eature=related
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV5KrF4fTxo&feature=user
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ5nd4ueVMU&feature=user
Part 4:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0xmCFYK9wc&feature=user

It was after watching this epidsode that I knew my lifts could go a lot more, it was just a matter of CNS training.

Do more searching on your own, I have to work. And next time try, "Could you give an example?" Its much more friendly when it comes to debating a topic or a claim.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:10 AM   #92
Donald Clarkson
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

George,

Those were COOL!
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:43 AM   #93
Lewis Dunn
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

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Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
And next time try, "Could you give an example?" Its much more friendly when it comes to debating a topic or a claim.
Uh, that's exactly what I wanted. You may have read more into my completely serious inquiry than was intended??? Thanks for the links. Those are fascinating. I don't have cable and never watch Discovery. I had no idea this stuff makes it onto YouTube.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:45 PM   #94
John Tuitele
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

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Originally Posted by Andy Shirley View Post
Article on Rhabdo I hadn't seen before(that also publicly available): good overview.
http://www.residentandstaff.com/issu...2007-06_03.asp
wfs

another good one:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...52/ai_17281983
wfs
Thanks Andy - Great cites, stored both articles away for reference/lectures - particularly tight quote from the first one, illustrating the difficulty in catching rhabdo clinically....

No consensus exists about which is the most reliable marker for assessing the presence and severity of muscle damage. Furthermore, no standard creatine kinase values that conclusively diagnose rhabdomyolysis have been established, although various values have been postulated. Some experts speculate that a level of ≥10,000 U/L is indicative of "clinically significant rhabdomyolysis." Others suggest a creatine kinase level of 5000 U/L as the critical value at which serious muscle injury occurs, and yet others cite 5000 U/L as the level at which the risk for renal failure increases significantly. In contrast, some studies have shown a poor correlation between the level of creatine kinase elevation and the degree of muscle damage.
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:28 PM   #95
Denise Stuart
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

Thanks for the input. I assumed that most people wouldn't push themselves too hard and start slow by learning the exercises before doing a full workout. I wanted to get a group of the guys from work that were interested and slowly start and work our way into doing full WODs after everyone knew the exercises and knew not to kill themselves doing this.

The last thing I need is my 1SG busting my @lls for requesting to do this as part of our unit pt. The only ammo I would to have to back up my thoughts on the crossfit lawsuit was the crossfit journal on it and what I assumed was the common sense factor of working out. So thanks! Really thanks!
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:26 PM   #96
Will Kimmins
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

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Originally Posted by Max Zerba View Post
Banning crossfit in the military would be difficult and would require a very motivated fitness staff. The fitness center staff at the military gyms I have been to are really not that motivated. They could stop all "sanctioned" classes, but not the revolution. This would force it underground, viva la resistance!
Good point, also I haven't been to a Military facility yet where there wasn't either an affiliate nearby or a local group of Crossfitters you can link up with. G'head and try to stop me working out at whatever intensity I choose on my off hours, just g'head.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:50 PM   #97
Joe Shininger
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

This isn't going to go anywhere. The duty owed to the plaintiff here are:

1. To exercise ordinary care
We all know what goes into a CF warmup, and what instruction is like in a CF workout. "Ordinary" is defined by what the ordinary reasonable person would have done in the situation-not hard to show that the trainer probably went ABOVE that.

2. A duty to refrain from injuring Plaintiff
It depends on what "injuring" means. If it means actively TRYING to hurt him, that's obviously not what happened. If it means acting negligently so that harm resulted, we only need to look to whether the conduct is "reasonable" in this context. Not the case in either situation, since the jury will see that there were steps taken that an ordinary reasonable person in defendant's position would have taken.

3. A duty to give proper and reasonable instruction
The whole idea behind a coach is that they motivate you when you are lagging. Here, it is likely that the trainer was encouraging Plaintiff to keep pushing, just like any other trainer would. Plus, this was a CrossFit workout, so it is reasonable to assume Plaintiff knew the caliber of workout he was getting. Additionally, Plaintiff is a wrestler-it can be easily argued that it was reasonable for Defendant to assume that a wrestler can handle a strenuous workout (which the hilariously awesome video posted today shows that even little kids can handle)

4. A duty to refrain from exposing Plaintiff to unreasonable risks
This is problematic. A jury could be convinced that a CF workout is unreasonably dangerous by highlighting some of the more extreme examples of what we do. This would likely work in our favor though, b/c we could show that, relative to other workouts that we do, this was a relatively mild, simple one with a low risk of injury compared to something like Fran of Murph.

5. A duty to observe and monitor Plaintiff to prevent injury.
Defendant was probably right there the whole time. Encouraging him, yes, but we all know that no one can make us keep going if we are tired and want to stop. Here, it cannot be argued that Defendant failed to prevent Plaintiff's injury, because Defendant cannot reasonably be expected to be aware of Plaintiff's internal physical state. Again, Plaintiff is a wrestler and in the military-it is reasonable assumption that an ordinary reasonable person would make that that person could handle this workout. The fact that he ended up injured is not the fault of Defendant, who cannot be expected to be aware of Plaintiff's internal well-being.



In summary, Plaintiff will lose hard, and this is a waste of time.


(Note: not a lawyer, only a student. None of the above is intended to constitute legal advice. It is only my own reasoning, and should be read as only an opinion.)
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:53 AM   #98
Gant Grimes
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

Correct essay answer, Joe. You'll soon find out it doesn't always work that way. Judges and juries take liberties with black letter.

This cause of action possibly has small legs. On its face, it's probably 70/30 in CrossFit's favor, not enough for a verdict.

However, give me twelve out-of-shape people in a jury box, an arrogant community that prides itself on going to the edge (Infidel, Pukey, Rhabdo t-shirts), a comments section (using real names) ridiculing the plaintiff, and, finally, a ****ING workout named after the plaintiff and a film of kids doing it (the lawyer will also point out the music selection and plaintiff's name), and I could work with that.

Remember the video article "Don't Talk to Cops?" That applies to clients, too. Affiliates, this does not help you.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:42 AM   #99
Camille Lore
 
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

Let's hope this does not hurt CrossFit as a whole.
Personally, I think the guy is a loser.
But, the lawsuit obviously has potential to cause problems.
Best of luck to the affiliate and CFHQ. Let's hope sanity prevails.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:40 PM   #100
Joe Shininger
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Re: Lawsuit brought against CF affiliate

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Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
Correct essay answer, Joe. You'll soon find out it doesn't always work that way. Judges and juries take liberties with black letter.

This cause of action possibly has small legs. On its face, it's probably 70/30 in CrossFit's favor, not enough for a verdict.

However, give me twelve out-of-shape people in a jury box, an arrogant community that prides itself on going to the edge (Infidel, Pukey, Rhabdo t-shirts), a comments section (using real names) ridiculing the plaintiff, and, finally, a ****ING workout named after the plaintiff and a film of kids doing it (the lawyer will also point out the music selection and plaintiff's name), and I could work with that.

Remember the video article "Don't Talk to Cops?" That applies to clients, too. Affiliates, this does not help you.
But...but...essay answers are all I know!!!!
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