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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 10-05-2007, 05:01 AM   #31
Brandon Oto
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

Oh dear. I know actually Drew Baye from elsewhere. Small world.

Last edited by Lynne Pitts : 10-05-2007 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:04 AM   #32
Jay Hanewinkel
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

What's Drew Baye like in real life. I've read his some of his stuff over the years. He's always seemed pompous and bigoted to me.
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:31 AM   #33
Steven Low
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

For all the criticism programs receive.. it's funny how many detractors have not tried any of them. Not just referring to CF but pretty much all programs. I myself and guilty of that.

Kipping seems to be one of the biggest points of contention for most people.. and they can't see how the movement is effective in maintaining a high metabolic output along with loading the muscles. Albeit, it is a bit different than strict training, but a truly effective kip will stimulate hypertrophy and strength gains (especially near the bottom portion in the shoulder girdle).

Shrug.
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:50 AM   #34
Brandon Oto
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

He's chill. Maybe I'll drop in on that thread.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:20 AM   #35
Michael A. Krivka
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CF Detractors

I always enjoy hearing people talk trash about things they have no real experience in - it makes me laugh every time!

I've read a lot of trash about CF on the Web - but you can tell by the tone of the writing that the authors have never tried CF and are (in reality) terrified of it! :P

Same this is going on in the KB world concerning the relative merits of Hard Style and Girevoy Sport training. It's all good and you really can't compare apples and oranges... no matter how hard you try - but there are politics (meaning "feelings") involved so you just have to sit back and watch the angry words and BS fly. Not to mention that there are personality issues (i.e. top dog issues) involved along with the pursuit of cash as well.

God bless you guys for doing what you do and keep at it!
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:30 AM   #36
Jay Hanewinkel
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

I've been training with weights for about 10 years now(Not counting high school), staight, not off and on like most people. I've done a lot of different programs in that time. For all the grief it gets, I got my best results in terms of size and strength on a HIT routine. I stayed with that style for a long time because of it. I range about 190-195 now, I get down to 185 for jiu-jitsu and MMA matches (hoping to hit 170 next time), but when I was into bodybuilding I got up to a pretty lean (flat stomach, abs somewhat visible) 215-220 at 5'8" (a little taller than that) using HIT as well as a 425 squat, 450 deadlift and 315 bench press, I also did weighted pullups with 100lbs for several repetitions. I'm always searching for the best possible routines and when I began jiu-jitsu I had to get my weight down and I lost a lot of strength. Later I started looking for something that would give me great strength and metabolic conditioning, I came across crossfit after I heard that BJ Penn did it.

I always approach every training style as a skeptic, but at the same time I give it a fair chance. I did that with HIT and I can say it was the best thing I ever did as far as size and strength, but the down sides were that I had worse than bad conditioning, it was very hard on the body, meaning that despite what they are saying on that thread, going to absolute failure can sometimes allow you to lose a bit of form on the last few reps and I often got aches and pains in my muscles from this, particularly in the lower back from an injury in high school wrestling (I still deal with this if I'm not careful). When I see people say HIT doesn't work, it leads me to believe that they are just parroting things they've read on the internet. On the same note, I've done Olympic lifts occasionally since high school and for all the grief the HIT guys give that, I've never had an injury doing even the heaviest Olympic lifts, or high rep lifts. Also throughout high school I never saw someone get hurt doing them. Also, drawing from experience, I've found that if you don't ever do anything in a fast motion, you'll be susceptible to injury in the event that you do. When I only did HIT and no athletic activities and used slower than normal lifting speeds, I would often have slight pains if I jumped or ran. I don't know why, but that's my experience. Now days I try to find ways to lift while gain as little muscle as possible. I've used the westside method and got stronger lb for lb, but can't match my bests from back then.

I approached crossfit with the same attitude. I think it works well. I've always come to the conclusion now that intensity of effort is what matters most, along with recovery. I've heard detractors, particularly on Tnation, say that high rep olympic lifting won't work for conditioning because you will hit muscle failure before you get any metabolic response. That statment just shows they've never done it.

I'll end it there, but the point is that with the internet, there are so many self proclaimed experts and arm chair quarterbacks on sites like TNation that it really has reduced the quality of information out there to the point where it's difficult to tell what works and what doesn't. I bring up TNation because I think it is the worst of the bunch, full of a bunch of high school and college kids who sit around and read the numerous articles on the site, feel like they are a part of something and really know something and they are really clueless. Just from read some of the 10,000 articles on that site, many of the contributors have a hugely political motive over what is good versus what isn't. Sometimes you have to wonder if they believe what they're writing. And the kids there just follow the party line.
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:33 AM   #37
Jay Hanewinkel
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

One other thing that I do that most don't is that I look for similarities in training styles, not differences. Most things will work to some extent, when you look at the similarities you usually find the truth.

I think that HIT and crossfit have more in common than they have differences.
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Old 10-06-2007, 08:03 AM   #38
Ryan Christopher Hutchins
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

I believe you should do what individually is good for you. If you plan on getting up on stage and showing of the latest cut in your calf then bodybuilding is definitely what you need. Bodybuilding is a sport lets not forget. These guys are extremely dedicated and workout twice a day for hours. In any sport you should do sport specific training. I don't make fun of any one in the gym who's arms are constantly bent and who can bench a car. It's no different than watching someone on the basketball court hit 20 shots in a row and go through drills. You can't really look at Ronnie Coleman without some sense of awe. The CF wod's won't give BBs what they need as far as their sport. So what they do is necessary. I prefer to think of CF as a life style or philosophy. You use what works and throw out the rest. Thats what we do in real life if we want to be succesfull. Spending 6 hours a day in a gym doesn't work for ME and a lot of people. On top of that bodybuilding doesn't have real world application. At least not at a high level. Doing something is better than nothing. Sprinters, basketball players, baseball players, athletes in general don't look like body builders because BB doesn't work in the broad spectrum of life activities. You can't really compare CF to body building like you couldn't compare a boxer to a MMA. Sure the boxer would wipe the floor with the MMA'er en the ring and vice versa in the octagon or what have you. But the MMA would excell in any street fight in any location. Everyone should do what is best for them and excel at their sport. CF is not a sport. From what i have seen it is a devotion to and a pursuit of what is truly fit. Lets just end it all with a nice but true story......


There was a body builder who came in my gymnastic gym one day. Somehow an argument was started about who was stronger gymnasts or BBers. It was decided to settle it with a strength challenge no less. But it wasn't pullups or dips. It was a pushing contest. This huge BBer who was about 240 was about to go toe to toe with ..........a 60 pound little girl. They had to set themselves one foot from each other and push. The BBer was told not to go easy on the girl and to really push her. He did and she went back a little but did not fall down or lose her footing. She pushed him however and he fell right over. This happened 3 times in a row but the BBer could not knock the little girl over. She even apologized to him for being rough on him. Now whats the moral of this story kids?
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:55 PM   #39
Derek Heinonen
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

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Originally Posted by Ryan Christopher Hutchins View Post
Now whats the moral of this story kids?
Time to incorporate pushing little girls into the WOD?

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Old 10-06-2007, 03:34 PM   #40
Kevin Perry
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Re: The argument over the merit of CF on bodybuilding.com

thats not fair, poor bodybuilder didn't stand a chance.
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