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Old 05-16-2006, 03:24 PM   #11
Carl Herzog
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This hypothetical argument about eating hippos for the fat seems like someone is trying too hard to find support for his position. We'll never really know the extent to which paleolithic megafauna figured into human diet, but all the evidence suggests that deer-sized animals were the protein staple of prehistoric hunter/gatherers. That's lean meat no matter how you slice it.
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:57 PM   #12
Jibreel Freeland
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Could you provide citations?

Deer:

http://www.noble.org/Ag/Wildlife/Dee...onHealth3.html

400,000 years Ago-

"The most common bones are those of various antelopes, hippo and an ancestral zebra. There are also the remains of elephant and an extinct species of wild pig. Virtually all of the long bones have been split for the marrow and the skulls bashed for the brains. There is no evidence of fire, and some authorities have concluded that Olorgesailie Man ate his food raw. One expert, however, has argued that ashes do not preserve well in this part of the world and that no judgement can be made."

From: http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF001973/Rensberger/Rensberger01/Rensberger01.ht ml

About 2/3 of a brain is composed of fat. Marrow is predominantly fat. So while carcass fat (marbling) may be lower for wild animals, it is pretty clear that not only can a good amount be extracted form them, but that these fatty parts of the animal were prefered.

If the overkill hypothesis of pleistocene megafauna extinction is true then humans REALLY got alot of fat.



(Message edited by nothing on May 16, 2006)
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Old 05-17-2006, 01:57 AM   #13
David Ingersoll
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Here's Cordain's paper on the fatty acid composition of animal muscle, brain, marrow, and adipose tissue. He also compares grain-fed, pasture-fed, and wild animals.

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles...Acid%20PDF.pdf
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Old 05-17-2006, 05:36 AM   #14
Greg Battaglia
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David, Cordains fatty acid analysis is spot on. However, he selectively chooses lean animals in his studies. Were he to choose a much more fatty animal (even in it's wild state) you would see a much different picture.
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:35 AM   #15
Ben Kaminski
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I have a hard time understanding that saturated fat is lower in wild animals than in commercial animals. When I cook a piece of grass fed meat, the fat that cooks out turns white at room temperature, meaning it is saturated. Mono- and poly-unsaturated fats are liquid at room temperature. I have cooked many kinds of grass fed meat, such as veal, beef, ground beef, beef liver, ground lamb, and not-purely-grass-fed-bacon, and always there is a whole lot of saturated fat cooked out. I admit sources on the internet claim that saturated fat can be as low as 10% of the total fat in a piece of grass fed meat, but I have trouble believing that based on my own experience. Where is the unsaturated fat hiding, then?

Carl, the hunter gatherers rarely ate animals for the protein. On the contrary, the parts of an animal that were eaten preferentially were the organs and fat. The muscle meat was usually left for scavengers, unless the food supply was scarce enough. See www.westonaprice.org for more info.

Fat was the preferred macronutrient for most hunter-gatherer societies, that much is fairly certain. The percentage of saturated fat that was consumed as part of that is still in question, but in my opinion saturated fat was present in large quantities.
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:52 AM   #16
Robert Wolf
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Greg-

I'm right there with you! I do MUCH better on a higher fat diet. Even Zone proportions are too much for me. I do endeavor to have plenty of my fat come from mono's and I take 5-10g of fish oil per day. Interesting stuff!
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:57 AM   #17
Ross Hunt
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Let's focus on the important point: There is a lot of money to be made off this. The tentative title of my book is:

RHINO RIPPED!

Don't delay! Gore your way to low bodyfat today!

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/24489.jpg
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Old 05-17-2006, 06:00 PM   #18
Carl Herzog
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Jibreel,

References will take some digging. It's been a long time since looking into that literature.

Re: Weston Price - A willingness to consider the contrarian viewpoint is admirable (and something that should be no surprise coming from a Crossfitter!) We do need to be careful, though, that the viewpoint's contrary nature isn't its main source of appeal.

As has been stated many times during this feud, we'll never know for sure exactly how our ancestors ate. Here's a crazy idea: why not learn what it takes to make it as a hunter/gatherer? Not just an academic study, but really learn how to make primitive tools, how to use them to hunt and butcher animals and harvest edible plants. Sure, it'll take some time but there are many resources avaliable and it can be a lot of fun. Do that and then tell us if the idea of H-G's regularly passing up the muscle meat from their kills still makes sense to you.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:16 PM   #19
Jibreel Freeland
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http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles...Acid%20PDF.pdf

From page 187 of Cordain's review:

"Hence triacylglycerol rich adipocytes located between muscle fiber bundles are largely responsible for the quantitative differences in fat content between grain fed domestic meat and wild ruminant meat."

(Message edited by nothing on May 17, 2006)
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:58 PM   #20
David Ingersoll
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I dinstinctly perceive ribs on the side of that anorexic rhino. I'm estimating a hefty 10% bodyfat (though at that weight, that's still a lot of fat).

I wonder how many men it took to take one of those (or larger) beasts down, and how they divied up all the fat between the hunters and their families. How abundant would the fat be once meted out?

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