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Old 10-01-2013, 08:34 AM   #1
Andrew Zege
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Help in correcting squat butt wink

Hi everyone, it's my first post here. I'd like to start crossfit, but having had back problems before wanted to make sure i have at least flexibility to do things like squats correctly before i hurt myself with weight. Really need advice of someone who've been around and seen correct squat technique. Below is my attempt at deep squat. I know it's pretty awkward overall -- but mainly I am trying to avoid lumbar flexion at the bottom. So my questions are
1) should i try to eliminate remaining lumbar flexion at the bottom before loading with weight?
2) is lumbar extension that i naturally have on top of squat OK, or should i work on becoming more neutral there?
3) is there a way to diagnose what is exactly the limiting factor making me flex at the bottom. I think it's my ankle dorsiflexion, but it could be a host of other things and i am clueless at diagnostics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3f3g...ature=youtu.be

Apologies for partial nudity -- i am barefoot and shirtless to show how the feet and spine works. Would really appreciate your help here.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:50 AM   #2
Ari Sherwood
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

Yes, I would definitely focus on getting your air squat better before loading any weight on it. Other than hyperextension for some folks, lumbar flexion at the bottom of the squat is perhaps the worst squat fault as it really takes a toll on the discs. For one thing, you don't need to go quite as deep as you are squatting (hip crease below knee is plenty), but secondly, focus on improving ankle, hip and hamstring mobility, and also work on thoracic mobility to reduce the cervical flexion (upper torso flexion). Most of all, just work on staying tighter through the movement - in your core, erector spinae, etc. and driving knees out.

Here's a great original CF Journal article on the squat technique: http://journal.crossfit.com/2002/12/...g-glassman.tpl {WFS}
The bar hold and box squat technique are very effective, as are squats done with your toes close to a wall.

"When has the squat been mastered? This is a good question. It is fair to say that the squat is mastered when both technique and performance are superior...

The most common faults to look for are surrendering of the lumbar curve at the bottom, not breaking the parallel plane with the thighs,
slouching in the chest and shoulders, looking down, lifting the heels, and not fully extending the hip at the top. Don’t even think about weighted squats until none of these faults belong to you."

Last edited by Ari Sherwood : 10-01-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:01 AM   #3
Ted Devito
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

pistol bottom position (single leg squat) is a great way to test dorsiflexion. get into this position from your butt on the floor so you don't have to descend through the range of motion. you should be able to balance in this position with your loaded foot flat on the floor with neutral, not collapsed arch in your foot. Other foot and leg is up off the floor.

you look like you just need some squat practice. I always use boxes (or a stack of 45s or something) for squat practice. squat up from a low box, because the box allows you to establish a good bottom position instead of repeating your crappy bottom position as you wink into the bottom. I use a move that's like a combination of a good morning and a squat, where I'm massaging my hips down and back into the position they need while maintaining proper spine position and trying to get more upright with hip extension while your *** is down close to the bottom. gotta spend a few minutes down there working on it, then load it up with something like tabata squats. RDLs are great assistance exercise too because they really focus lengthening out posterior chain during hip extension while keeping back tight, but they are not a replacement for just practicing your sqaut. remember torque in the hips. squeeze your knees together and shove them out past your toes. wide knees narrow toes strong upright torsoe, not toes out past knees with muted saggy torso.

big point for me is to make sure to spend time just practicing your squat. mobility when your practice tells you there is a spot that's getting in the way, but make the practice the primary point and make sure your mobility work always serves your functional position.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:47 AM   #4
Robert Fabsik
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

Butt back more and really push your knees out. Keep your weight on your heels.

Using a box can help or doing lots of goblet squats can help.

Squat doesn't have to be mastered before putting a bar on your back. Some people squat better with a bar on their back then an air squat.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:15 AM   #5
Andrew Zege
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

Thank you gentlemen. I guess there are some common suggestions like
1) knee out, which i am trying to do, although it's not clear in the video shot from the side
2) do box squat which it seems i could do without flexing the back at least with a box of 8" height
3) goblet squats. Never tried, but this seems great for learning to shift the weight behind.
4) tabata, low weight bar. I suppose this is to get some minimal strength and endurance.

As far as diagnosing the problem, i can balance in pistol on left leg, not on right, i have less dorsiflex on it. I am working on stretching the ankle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Devito View Post
I use a move that's like a combination of a good morning and a squat, where I'm massaging my hips down and back into the position they need while maintaining proper spine position and trying to get more upright with hip extension while your *** is down close to the bottom. gotta spend a few minutes down there working on it
This felt like a revelation. I haven't tried it, but doing hip extension at the bottom sounds exactly like what i need to do to get straight back at the bottom. Thanks again
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:10 PM   #6
Jeff Enge
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

Don't look down. Getting your head up will help keep your chest up, which will help keep your lumbar curve.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:00 PM   #7
Andrew Zege
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
Don't look down. Getting your head up will help keep your chest up, which will help keep your lumbar curve.
Yeah, thanks for the tip. I actually figured that after shooting the video. Only thing is i have the back extended on most of the squat, it's the bottom part when i go into flexed back and that's when i think i need to look up. Noone actually commented on my back extension - it kind of doesn't look right, but is it a potential hazard if done with weight?
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:31 AM   #8
Scott Kraatz
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

You bet it is a potential hazard (flexion at the bottom). It might not get you immediately but it could (through repetition) down the road if you don't correct it.

Like others have said, box squats, not going as deep and all the other suggestions.

Something I didn't notice others commenting on was that you should start and end your squat standing fully erect.

Try with an empty bar. Holding the bar in place and pressing back into the bar will keep that lower back in extension.

To increase mobility checkout (wfs http://mobilitywod.com).

Since you mention that you have had back problems before, learning better movement patterns and strengthening you back by trying Foundation Training (wfs http://foundationtraining.com) would be a great place for you to start. It will help with your squat for sure and make your back safer.
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:11 AM   #9
Mike Donalds
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

Read this article.

http://www.takanoathletics.com/blog/?p=3235 (WFS)
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:32 AM   #10
Dustin Wintczak
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Re: Help in correcting squat butt wink

Or maybe read this:

http://70sbig.com/blog/2010/10/the-butt-wink/

Possibly not WFS, language

Justin over at 70's Big knows his stuff. Specifically pay attention to what he says about "butt wink" during BW squats.
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