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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-15-2012, 09:30 AM   #1
Michael R. Miller
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What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

So I will use myself as an example for this question and hopefully it will help make sense. I will list my best all time numbers below

Squat-385
Front Squat-325
Dead Lift-455
Bench-325
Press-235
Clean and Jerk-275
Snatch-190

So my main issue is I'm a program jumper no dedicated strength or dedicated program in general. I never did an LP or a TM or a Westside or any program you can think of to a T. So what would I be considered a beginner an intermediate or something?? Would I still benefit from an LP or would something like TM or Westside work. I am asking this question because I think we in the CrossFit community see this a lot with people and clients. So how would you train someone like that. I used myself as an example but I'm not asking someone how to train me I found a program that works for me and that is what I use currently.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:00 AM   #2
John C Corona
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

Im not going to answer your question at all. But Im thinking your bodyweight has something to do with knowing how your numbers stack against others. I've seen stuff like, (dont quote me), 4 or 5 (I forget) x bw total (bench, sqt, dl), bw+ presses being pretty darn good. If also seen posts by Glenn Pendlay referring to %'s like bsqt being the high number, fsqt is 90% of that, then clean is 90% of fsqt, jerk what you clean, snatch what you overhead sqt or close. But this is off memory and have no clue really. Refering to your own programming, if #'s go up, then you're good right. Also, programs are made to be broken, so even if you have a template saying 85% of such, but you feel good and max out that day and PR, then so be it and vice versa.

You didnt mention wod times, but I've always kept these spreadsheets on my whiteboard for metcons. wfs.
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=45306
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=39256

Would be great if someone would answer your strength questions definitively.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:18 AM   #3
Ty Pugh
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

I believe you can base it off you CFT, with press,squat and deadlift. which will show you where you rank in reference to beginner,novice etc in the CF world. with this link http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/faq.html#WOD8 .
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:35 AM   #4
Michael R. Miller
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

I know that chart very well the issue is if at 185lbs which I am my press numbers are advanced to elite levels whereas my squat and deads are not.

Also Rippetoe is the one responsible for that chart and I've heard and seen where he has stated and others that most people don't milk their LPs long enough and an LP can easily add 100lbs to a beginners total which would no longer put them in the beginner part of that chart yet its experience not amount of weight lifted that makes you a beginner.

So in other words if you trained CrossFit for 3yrs but never did an actual strength program what would you be?

Another example the guy that owns the CrossFit gym I go to only squats 345 but has been CrossFitting for 5-6 yrs he never did any kind of dedicated strength but he could out WOD most of us what is he considered? Would he still benefit from an LP or a TM?
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:42 AM   #5
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael R. Miller View Post
So I will use myself as an example for this question and hopefully it will help make sense. I will list my best all time numbers below

Squat-385
Front Squat-325
Dead Lift-455
Bench-325
Press-235
Clean and Jerk-275
Snatch-190

So my main issue is I'm a program jumper no dedicated strength or dedicated program in general. I never did an LP or a TM or a Westside or any program you can think of to a T. So what would I be considered a beginner an intermediate or something?? Would I still benefit from an LP or would something like TM or Westside work. I am asking this question because I think we in the CrossFit community see this a lot with people and clients. So how would you train someone like that. I used myself as an example but I'm not asking someone how to train me I found a program that works for me and that is what I use currently.

well i like the links and advice above.

to answer your question specifically, you have to give more info and ask more specific question....

what is your current height, weight, age, bodyfat, etc? lift numbers reflect very different things for a 150lb 45yr old and a 250lb 20yr old. Also, you say the lift number listed are your all time best, but what are your current numbers? it is entirely possible for someone to be at a high intermediate or advanced level and go back to beginner.. it's not a "once you achieve it you never go back" type of thing. an elite athlete may need to go back to basics if they let themselves go too long, if they have injury, or if their goals change. this also leads to the next, and possibly most important question, which is, what are your goals? when you say beginner, intermediate, advanced, then next question is "for what"? those lift numbers would be great for an endurance athlete, good for a crossfit athlete, and not good at all for a powerlifter. it is possible for a person to be advanced in one aspect of fitness and beginner in another, in fact it happens all the time. if you are wanting to know about crossfit then those numbers are pretty solid for strength but what are the other numbers such as run times, metcons, gymnastic moves, etc. i like this spreadsheet for crossfit as a starting point, although it is a few years old and the competitive athletes in the games are constantly improving and raising the bar...

http://www.crossfitseattle.com/Skill...preadsheet.pdf (WFS)
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:48 AM   #6
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

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Originally Posted by Michael R. Miller View Post
I know that chart very well the issue is if at 185lbs which I am my press numbers are advanced to elite levels whereas my squat and deads are not.

Also Rippetoe is the one responsible for that chart and I've heard and seen where he has stated and others that most people don't milk their LPs long enough and an LP can easily add 100lbs to a beginners total which would no longer put them in the beginner part of that chart yet its experience not amount of weight lifted that makes you a beginner.

So in other words if you trained CrossFit for 3yrs but never did an actual strength program what would you be?

Another example the guy that owns the CrossFit gym I go to only squats 345 but has been CrossFitting for 5-6 yrs he never did any kind of dedicated strength but he could out WOD most of us what is he considered? Would he still benefit from an LP or a TM?
well just to try and place an athlete in one place for all things is never going to work... even with games athletes you have individuals with strengths and weaknesses... it is perfectly possible to be "elite" or "advance" in one aspect and only "intermediate" or even "beginner" in another. the choice is to either work on the weakness and balance it all out, continue to do what good at to be ever better, or just do all of it and let it sort itself out. again, that depends on your goals. are you a person that does CF to compete at CF, or do you do CF as a GPP program with a focus on something else? also, some people are naturally strong and struggle with being overweight while others are naturally small and struggle with being strong. so individual genetics, lifestyles, etc come into play.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:58 AM   #7
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

additionally i will add that if you really want to place an individual person in an overall category based on where they are, i would look to where they are mentally as much as physically, especially for CF. a young man may be a beginner even though he can destroy workouts, where as a older woman may be advanced even though she scales everything and has limitations. when considering where a person is, i would consider not just lift number, metcons times, etc, but also (and probably more importantly)

- do they know, understand, and use proper form

- do they know the names of movements

- do they understand terms, abbreviations, etc, which allows them to read and understand WODs

- do they understand nutrition

- do they have clearly defined goals

- do they keep track of progress, workouts, etc

- do they understand the intention of certain workouts allowing them to modify and scale appropriately (including scaling both up and down)

and if in a box setting you might add

- do they respect other people, equipment, space, etc

- do they show up on time

- do they have a positive attitude and also encourage other to do so

- how much time to they take / use / require for personal attention from the coach



i am sure there are many others... but i would consider this when determining the placement of people on an "overall scale" as much or more than just pure physical abilities
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:54 AM   #8
Michael R. Miller
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

I guess there is no definitive answer and I understood where you were going with once you reach a level doesn't mean you can never go back but at the same time if it were that simple then every top olympic lifter or power lifter would take like a year off and still see beginner gains and unfortunately I don't think it works that way haha that would be nice though huh to have beginner gains all over again.

I'm not worried about my training so listing my stats does no good really.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:38 PM   #9
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

Solid Intermediate unless you are a really big guy. Even then, it's decent numbers for any crossfitter.

You like doing Oly apparently and strength work and I guess CF.

Do Outlaw. It hits all of those.
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:30 PM   #10
John C Corona
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Re: What is a beginner, Intermediate, etc.

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Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
Solid Intermediate unless you are a really big guy. Even then, it's decent numbers for any crossfitter.

You like doing Oly apparently and strength work and I guess CF.

Do Outlaw. It hits all of those.
Hell yeah, that press is outstanding! But Im kinda skinny, and almost gotcha on the snatch. GO OUTLAW BRO, all the kids are doing it, peer pressure man.
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