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Old 05-12-2012, 05:10 AM   #11
Joey Shishineh
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

Just based on the title, I say go 'zone paleo'. doesn't have to follow either specifically, just make sure you focus BOTH on quality and quantity of foods. As they will have a huge impact on your goals. Although your goals are about 'appearance', you will find that if you fuel your body for performance and stay strict, the aesthetics will follow closely in-line.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:13 AM   #12
Luke Seubert
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

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Originally Posted by Hannah McFarlane View Post
First off, let me say congratulations. I just saw your Paleozone v. Morbid Obesity thread and, if I am reading it quickly, you have already lost 130lbs.
Thank you. And yes, you read it right. 53 weeks so far and about 133 pounds lost. I have something in the vicinity of around 70 to 80 pounds to go, which I should be able to lose by the end of this year. Then, I go into caloric surplus and start lifting heavy.

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Originally Posted by Hannah McFarlane View Post
What is your protein, carb, fat ratio now? How precisely do you try to calculate it? Do you cycle the ratios at all (I have heard of people doing higher carb on workout days, and higher fat on rest days)?
A year ago, I could have told you this with great precision, because I weighed and measured everything, and calculated it all before hand. These days, while I do roughly count calories, my methods for apportioning macronutrients are more crude albeit much faster.

I consume roughly 2,700 to 2,900 calories per day, sometimes more, sometimes less. If I avoid sugary carbs and exercise moderately 3X per week (which I didn't do this past week), I can drop 2.3 to 2.5 pounds per week, most of which is fat. On most days of the week, fat makes up around 40% to 50% of my daily calories, with around 25% to 35% coming from protein. The rest is carbohydrates coming from widely varying low-starch vegetables. Twice a week, on Sunday and Wednesday evenings, I have a high-carb upcycle, in which the last two meals of the day are very high starchy carbs - yams, but low in fat and protein. This helps to reset various hormone levels to optimum balance for continued rapid fat loss with minimal muscle loss. I don't synchronize carb intake to my workouts, although I probably will in the future. If I feel a need for extra carbs, I eat them. I also pay attention to recovery, rest, and reducing stress, though I could do better in these areas.

This is not a dietary regimen which I recommend for most people. (Among other things, very few people can lose over two pounds a week while eating 2,700 calories per day - I am a large male with a high metabolism.) I am an outlier on the Bell curve. My genes give me a metabolism which is extremely efficient at converting any excess simple carbohydrates into body fat. To lose fat, and to keep it off for the rest of my life, I have to avoid sugary carbs above all else, and most other carbs much of the time. I am, for example, gluten sensitive. Now, once I get the fat off and have been working out really hard for quite a while, my metabolism will have changed so that I can consume more simple carbs and not get fat. But I still won't be able to eat as much of them as people with more normal, i.e. naturally slender, metabolisms.

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Originally Posted by Hannah McFarlane View Post
First I have heard of the NHE book, I will definitely look into it.
It is a very good book to read. And the diet is flexible. Paleo folks like me can follow it, but so can vegans, vegetarians, pescetarians, and people eating the usual range of foods. The website design in support of the book is pretty clunky, and is full of high-power, buy-now! hype. Don't let that fool you - the book is serious and scholarly, densely packed with well researched and thought out material. Download a free .pdf copy of NHE - Chapter 21: Hormonally Intelligent Exercise (WFS) to see for yourself. On the first page, under the section "Popular Exercise Myths", pay very close attention to the last myth - it applies to you, and what he says about this myth is very true.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:19 AM   #13
Luke Seubert
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Aw, shucks, Luke. You're sweet.

Katherine
You think? Huh, I don't know. I mean, it was a backhanded compliment after all. "Yah - Katherine is snarky and all, but there's some good reasons why she's so snarky."

Also, I more or less trashed your taste in Hollywood hunks in that other post. I mean, come on Katherine, guys who get Brazilian waxes for their chests? Yuck.

Yeah, I guess this is my own little "Bash Katherine Week". Oh well, next week is a new week.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:39 AM   #14
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

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Originally Posted by Luke Seubert View Post
Also, I more or less trashed your taste in Hollywood hunks in that other post. I mean, come on Katherine, guys who get Brazilian waxes for their chests? Yuck.
You're a guy. I don't expect you to understand or share my tastes in men.

Katherine
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:35 PM   #15
Luke Seubert
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
You're a guy. I don't expect you to understand or share my tastes in men.
Now Katherine, really. You know better than that. You can't make certain assumptions these days like you could in the past.

But hey, even us manly men can recognize and distinguish ruggedly handsome guys from, ahh, metrosexual blowdried pooftah types. Sean Connery - manly. And hairy. Daniel Craig - waxed body - unmanly. And this is coming from a guy who believes in good grooming to the extent that 15 years ago he began trimming and shaving all the newly sprouting nose and ear hair.

I think Craig is a very good James Bond, and with a few more well done films I'll even give him the nod over Connery as greatest Bond ever. But the swimming trunk scenes have got to go! Same logic applies to Top Gun
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:39 PM   #16
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

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Originally Posted by Luke Seubert View Post
Now Katherine, really. You know better than that. You can't make certain assumptions these days like you could in the past.
I was leaping to no conclusions. The point still stands regardless of which team a particular man might be playing for.

Sorry, Hannah. Have we completely hijacked your thread yet?

Obligatory nutrition content: I think the big advantage of the paleo diet is that it makes it easy to make good food choices. I just think it ultimately defines "good" too narrowly.

Katherine
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:09 PM   #17
Luke Seubert
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Obligatory nutrition content: I think the big advantage of the paleo diet is that it makes it easy to make good food choices. I just think it ultimately defines "good" too narrowly.
For some people, maybe even many people, this is a true statement - the Paleo diet defines "good nutrition" too narrowly.

However, for a good number of folks, the notion that Paleo Diet = "good nutrition" is spot on. This is certainly true in my own personal experience. After six months on the Paleo Diet, last Thanksgiving I went on something of a "gluten bender", enjoying quite a lot of dressing, cakes, biscuits, etc. for the first time in many months. The effects were quite dramatic, as I detailed in the following post to my Workout Log, The Peaked Perils In Partaking Of Pro Tempore Non-Paleo Provender (WFS).

So, Katherine, is it fair to say that my personal, anecdotal experience causes me some cognitive bias, making me especially keen on the Paleo Diet? Absolutely.

However, you might suffer from a similar cognitive bias. My guess is that you can eat non-Paleo foods in modest portions and not feel any ill effects. Consequently, based upon your own absolutely valid personal experience, you tend to dismiss Paleo as too restrictive. So while your biases are shaded a bit differently than mine, they are nonetheless biases based upon personal experience. And all humans, even those of us who attempt to be as rational and logical as possible, suffer from such biases. It is the way our brains are wired.

So I'll conclude by saying that I think we can both agree on the following:
  • The Paleo Diet is a very healthy diet. (Yes, I know - vegans would argue otherwise and in some cases, I think they might be right.)
  • The Paleo Diet is an ideal diet for at least some people.
  • For other people, the Paleo Diet is healthy, but unnecessarily restrictive.
  • For yet other people - not many, but they exist, consumption of red meat or even any animal meat brings up ill effects.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:12 AM   #18
Ben Joven
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

@hannah First off, congratulations on making the commitment to getting more fit, I've tried all kinds of crazy diets and workouts and from the looks of your original post it sounds like you're on the right track.

I think you may be getting some 'cause, generally speaking, most CrossFitters are performance oriented e.g., "I want a stronger deadlift", "faster Fran time" etc., and not very "aesthitic" oriented although if you stick with it you may look like this.

IMHO I would do the following:
  • Go Paleo for 30 days
  • Go for macro of 40% Fat, 40% Pro, 20% Carbs
  • Try to leave yourself a caloric defecit of 350 calories a day
  • Forget your "scale weight" and take before & after pictures, and get your body fat measured.
  • Have a sensible cheat meal or "day" once a week
  • Get a Heart Rate Monitor, Find out how many calories your burning during a "WOD" at your CrossFit box or from your own MetCons
  • Listen to the "Paleo Solutions" Podcast
  • Read Marks Daily Apple
  • Get my Paleo Recipe Book

Oh yeah, get plenty of sun and sleep(wear sunblock), fat is your body's natural protection against stress and winter, so if your chillaxing and getting a lot of sun you body will thank you by being leaner.

My 2 pennys...good luck girl, it's all about progression, I would stick to a goal of getting down to a certain body fat percentage but by no means don't try to lose 20 lbs in 30 days, in my experience with other people and myself if you lose that much weight in that short amount of time it takes two weeks to gain it all back.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:21 PM   #19
Cecilia Garrec
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

Hi, hope you don't mind if I go back to the original idea (or what I thought was your question). I'm in the same situation in which I still have some stubborn belly fat to deal with. After losing about 36 lbs first trying the Zone, getting into paleo and finally stabilizing with the Primal diet, I'd like to say what's currently working for me.

I'm 5'6"" and currently 122,6 lbs. My BF is now around 19-20%. I exercise about 5-6 times /wk. To try and get the last remaining fat off, I'm continuing with the Primal diet (actually the Primal lifestyle). I did read some pretty good posts about how to more specifically target body fat and though I've never tried these ideas, they sound like they probably work. I particularily liked Ben's post. I currently eat 100 g prot, 80-100g carbos and 60g fat.

Best wishes on reaching your goals!!
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:28 PM   #20
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Going Paleo, or Zone, or Zoned Paleo ... Help

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Originally Posted by Cecilia Garrec View Post
I'm 5'6"" and currently 122,6 lbs. My BF is now around 19-20%. I exercise about 5-6 times /wk. To try and get the last remaining fat off, I'm continuing with the Primal diet (actually the Primal lifestyle).


I seem to be having this conversation a lot lately....

You are two inches taller than me and weigh less than I do. The chances that you have any significant fat to lose are slim. Adding some muscle to your frame would probably do more for your appearance than trying to diet yourself into a skeleton.

Katherine
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