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Old 07-27-2011, 03:20 PM   #161
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
Refute this poindexters:

Running with a heel strike is probably the most injurious and pedestrian activity known to man. Thousands -- nay -- millions of people practice it in the US alone, and countless knees and shins are quietly yet predictably destroyed by it. Oh, by the way, I have no proof. Where do I sign for my class-action check?
I'm not going to refute that.

But, of the millions of people who are practicing that daily, how many of them are paying a certified coach in order to do it?
 
Old 07-27-2011, 03:21 PM   #162
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
Rhabdo and Achilles tears are not normal. Those are crazy freak injuries that are so rare I'd say most people didn't even know they could happen . . . before they became a serious issue in Crossfit.
Achilles tendon tears are one of the most common injuries in kendo, due to lots of foot-stomping on (usually) hard floors.

A while back, someone posted a thing about rhabdo in marathons and ultra-marathons.

So these injuries do happen in other sports.

But that again raises the question about "sports" vs. "strength and conditioning programs." If injuries are common in your S&C program, you need a new program.

Katherine
 
Old 07-27-2011, 03:25 PM   #163
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
Multiple people popped their Achilles doing one of the high-rep box jump workouts of the Open. They were doing a workout Crossfit HQ chose--is that outside the boundaries of Crossfit? Achilles tears, by the way, don't give any warning, it's BAM and you're done.
I don't have the statistics, but did more people get injured during the Crossfit games than say...football? Because now that we are talking about the Games, we are talking about sport, not fitness. Bad things happen in competitive sports.

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Crossfit HQ programs high-rep GHDs, high-rep GHDs are one of the most common causes of rhabdo. They program high-rep pull-ups--high-rep kipping pull-ups are terrible for the shoulder joint, and high-rep jumping pull-ups--the scaling that Crossfit HQ recommends--are another common cause of rhabdo. Are these outside the boundaries of Crossfit? Doing workouts Crossfit puts on their mainpage?
Scale, scale, scale. The Brand X scaling has several different tiers, and it's up to the individual to figure out where they fit. I haven't persued the scaling in-depth, but from what I've seen, if you pick the right one you shouldn't run into these issues. And if you are pursuing a fitness regimen and are reasonably intelligent, you ought to be able to pick the right one. It's not rocket science.

Quote:
The difference between Crossfit and riding a motorcycle manufacturer is that the motorcycle manufacturer doesn't tell you riding 100mph and swerving around 18-wheelers is a good idea. And you also have the experience to know that kind of behavior is a bad idea. Crossfit encourages risky behavior among people who, having had no fitness background, have no way of judging whether the behavior is risky or not.
If you're doing an activity and it starts to hurt, stop doing the activity. It's only risky if you don't listen to what your body is telling your and/or if you let your ego get in the way. The manufacturer says that I can go 100mph, but I know that will likely result in harm and I don't do it. The main page says do 100 pullups, but I know my limitations and will scale to my fitness level.

Seriously, where is the individual accountability?
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #164
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
Seriously, where is the individual accountability?
I believe in individual accountability.

However, if you are paying a certified coach $200 a month, then that $200 a month is paying for something, right?
 
Old 07-27-2011, 03:31 PM   #165
Lawrence "Bo" Boland III
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
Scale, scale, scale. The Brand X scaling has several different tiers, and it's up to the individual to figure out where they fit. I haven't persued the scaling in-depth, but from what I've seen, if you pick the right one you shouldn't run into these issues. And if you are pursuing a fitness regimen and are reasonably intelligent, you ought to be able to pick the right one. It's not rocket science.
You do realize that you're saying this about a fitness culture that prides itself on pushing through the pain, and going as fast and as hard as possible right? For every person that scales correctly, there are 10 others that are trying to "suck it up" and push harder.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:32 PM   #166
Shane Skowron
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
Refute this poindexters :

Running with a heel strike is probably the most injurious and pedestrian activity known to man. Thousands -- nay -- millions of people practice it in the US alone, orthopaedists and coaches recommend and teach it, and countless knees and shins are quietly yet predictably destroyed by it. Oh, by the way, I have no proof. Where do I sign for my class-action check?
Can you think of one heel-striking injury that requires immediate hospitalization in order to stay alive? Or one that results in acute injury? By this I mean something goes SNAP all of a sudden and requires immediate surgery, and not something that involves gradual degradation of joints over months/years.

Or, better yet, can you name a single organization or website that people turn to when they want information on running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
A while back, someone posted a thing about rhabdo in marathons and ultra-marathons.
...with no supporting data.

Lot of people throw this "fact" around, and just because it may have happened in the past doesn't mean it's anywhere near as high of a rate as in Crossfit.
 
Old 07-27-2011, 03:32 PM   #167
Jamie Gowens
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
I don't have the statistics, but did more people get injured during the Crossfit games than say...football? Because now that we are talking about the Games, we are talking about sport, not fitness. Bad things happen in competitive sports.
Things where people are paid a substantial amount of money and see the very best of physicians for their aches and pains. Josh Hamilton has a tight hammie? No one calls him a ***** because he doesn't play. Warsh puts him on the bench for a game or two.
Not so with CrossFit. With CrossFit, Hambone'd be called out for NOT playing. Because it takes "Heart", right?

Quote:
Scale, scale, scale. The Brand X scaling has several different tiers, and it's up to the individual to figure out where they fit. I haven't perused the scaling in-depth, but from what I've seen, if you pick the right one you shouldn't run into these issues. And if you are pursuing a fitness regimen and are reasonably intelligent, you ought to be able to pick the right one. It's not rocket science.
Don't over estimate the intelligence or ability of the general populace. People aren't necessarily dumb, but they are ignorant. CrossFit touts itself as for EVERYONE. MAINSITE WODS for EVERYONE. Don't blame the layman for not knowing better.
Quote:
If you're doing an activity and it starts to hurt, stop doing the activity. It's only risky if you don't listen to what your body is telling your and/or if you let your ego get in the way. The manufacturer says that I can go 100mph, but I know that will likely result in harm and I don't do it. The main page says do 100 pullups, but I know my limitations and will scale to my fitness level.

Seriously, where is the individual accountability?
There certainly is a level of individual accountability, but there's also a level of people paying for a service (training) from people who are supposed to know better.
 
Old 07-27-2011, 03:35 PM   #168
Shane Skowron
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
I don't have the statistics, but did more people get injured during the Crossfit games than say...football?
One of the former Crossfit Games champions (world's fittest man) urinated black and was curled up into a fetal position and said he was experiencing "physiological symptoms of death" during the Crossfit Games.

Ever seen that in an NFL game?
 
Old 07-27-2011, 03:37 PM   #169
Jim Denofa
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
This is telling me nothing about your squat, bench, deadlift, C&J, snatch, log press, stone loading before and after Crossfit . . . It tells me nothing about your programming before and after Crossfit or how long you've been training. How were you placing in meets and SM contests before and after Crossfit? Your training has benefited from the addition of long metcons and randomization? How has high-rep Olympic lifting improved your technique? I'm asking about the specific, numerical benefits Crossfit has brought to your athletic performance.



Life-threatening injuries like rhabdo and compartment syndrome?
I have a pretty long history. I have been doing this stuff for 18 years.

My lifts now are better than they were before. My log is on my website I do what I program for the most part.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:38 PM   #170
Emily Mattes
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
I don't have the statistics, but did more people get injured during the Crossfit games than say...football? Because now that we are talking about the Games, we are talking about sport, not fitness. Bad things happen in competitive sports.
High-rep box jumps are programmed regularly on the main page outside of the Games. And are you saying Crossfit HQ has no responsibility to program workouts that take into account that there are certain exercises--like high-rep box jumps--that carry an extremely increased risk of injury? Yes, football, other sports carry risk of injury. The difference between them and Crossfit is that when they see the same injury occurring over and over they make adjustments to decrease that risk of injury. See: padding in football, the concept of fouls in basketball or soccer, the recent debate in the NFL to decrease the force allowed in tackling to prevent long-term head injuries.


Quote:
Scale, scale, scale. The Brand X scaling has several different tiers, and it's up to the individual to figure out where they fit. I haven't persued the scaling in-depth, but from what I've seen, if you pick the right one you shouldn't run into these issues. And if you are pursuing a fitness regimen and are reasonably intelligent, you ought to be able to pick the right one. It's not rocket science.
Did you read that paragraph at all? One of the recommended scaling forms is substituting jumping pull-ups for kipping pull-ups. Jumping pull-ups are a major cause of rhabdo. And how do you account for experienced Crossfitters (see: OPT, Gillian Mounsey herself) who participate in Crossfit HQ-programmed workouts and get injured from them? The issue is not the scaling. The issue is the workout itself.

Quote:
If you're doing an activity and it starts to hurt, stop doing the activity. It's only risky if you don't listen to what your body is telling your and/or if you let your ego get in the way.
And what if you're new? What if you can't tell the difference between good hurt and bad hurt, and you're surrounded by people telling you to GO GO GO, including your trainer, who you are paying $150/month to train you and you assume knows what they're talking about? Or what if you're doing a movement that doesn't initially hurt (see: high-rep GHDs) and you don't realize is going to kick your *** until hours afterwards when the pain really sets in?

"Individual accountability"! So Crossfit has no accountability whatsoever? Trainers have no accountability? If you trust someone and pay them to give you correct information, and they give you wrong information, it's your fault for trusting them? I ask you the same question I ask another poster: do you trust your lawyer, your doctor, your auto mechanic to know what they're doing? And if they scam you, is it your fault for not having a law degree or medical degree or auto repair experience to know that they were going to scam you?
 
 


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