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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-03-2010, 12:20 AM   #11
Özgün Subasi
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

I am not doing a strict zone or paleo diet but I am following their principles. I.e. balanced meals with lots of vegetables, meat and fruit. Some nuts. Almost no junk food. I still consume dairy and legumes but I try to avoid grains as much as possible.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:51 AM   #12
Charlie A Nilsson
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

Then just lift heavy, eat good food and have fun
Seems like you are already doing a good job.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:08 PM   #13
Drew Cloutier
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

i'm curious as to the rationale behind squatting 3 times a week, but only dead twice and only press/bench once...squatting and deadlifting are almost identical movements, and include very similar prime movers, if you go by what Westside says. So you are hitting the posterior chain 5 times a week, and only working your pushing/pressing/benching once...setting yourself up for a rude awakening.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:45 PM   #14
Jeremiah Sites
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

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Originally Posted by Jeff Martin View Post
I think you are shooting to low if you are specifically training for strength. My oldest boy Connor weighs 160. His back squat is 380 and his deadlift 450. His training partner weighs 175. His back squat is 410 and his deadlift 500. Of course they are not specifically strength athletes and those lifts were done after doing a 2:14 and 2:50 Fran respectively. So we think their absolute numbers would be somewhat higher.
Your'e son is a animal ! damn him, I feel like a chump considering my #'s are about the same and I am 200 #.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:32 PM   #15
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

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Originally Posted by Özgün Subasi View Post
Since I train for weight lifting, I do front squats frequently. I do the back squats in the hi-bar position. Presses are varied (behind-the-neck, snatch-grip, sitting etc) and more frequent than bench presses. Other than than, it is basically the same structure as SS.
based on your listed program, your not training for weightlifting. I think one thing that might help you is to be very clear to yourself about your goals, then find a program to accomplish those goals.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:35 PM   #16
Chris Mason
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

If you train properly for strength I think your goals are quite doable. One thing to be careful of relative to diet is that you are not trying to gain strength on a hypo-caloric diet. Be sure to at least be at a maintenance level relative to caloric intake.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:29 AM   #17
Özgün Subasi
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

Thanks for replies.

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Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay View Post
based on your listed program, your not training for weightlifting. I think one thing that might help you is to be very clear to yourself about your goals, then find a program to accomplish those goals.
Since I just began to learn the snatch and c&j, I'm not doing them with heavy weights yet. We train the technique for 30-40 mins before the strength sessions. I hope I'll get the technique down soon enough so that we can integrate heavy snatch and c&js into my program.

Until I start to train heavy with snatch and c&js, I though I would concentrate on strength using a well-known strength program. The program is basically Starting Strength with variations on squats (hi-bar, front) and presses (sometimes behind the neck, sitting etc).

Could you recommend me other programs? I'm open to other ideas. I think my trainer would agree as long as I do some kind of squats and upper body movements in every training.

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Originally Posted by Drew Cloutier View Post
i'm curious as to the rationale behind squatting 3 times a week, but only dead twice and only press/bench once...squatting and deadlifting are almost identical movements, and include very similar prime movers, if you go by what Westside says. So you are hitting the posterior chain 5 times a week, and only working your pushing/pressing/benching once...setting yourself up for a rude awakening.
But I do the press/bench at least once, not exactly once. Every training, I do a lower body lift, then an upper body lift, then some assistance work. I do deadlifts only once a week. I hit the squats a bit lighter if I do deadlifts on the same day. E.g. my strength program of this week was as follows:

Monday: Squat, Bench Press, Chin-ups, Wrist Curls
Wednesday: Deadlift, Squat (light), Behind-the-neck Press
Friday: Front Squat, Bench Press, Weighted Dips, Wrist Curls
Saturday (at home): Dumbbell Lunges, Dumbbell Shoulder Press

About the wrist curls... I have some wrist pain (joint pain) during the snatch grip. Therefore my trainer said that the wrist curls and lots of wrist stretching could stabilize the wrists. What do you think about this recommendation?
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:47 PM   #18
Andrew Carnovale
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

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Originally Posted by Özgün Subasi View Post
Thanks for replies.



Since I just began to learn the snatch and c&j, I'm not doing them with heavy weights yet. We train the technique for 30-40 mins before the strength sessions. I hope I'll get the technique down soon enough so that we can integrate heavy snatch and c&js into my program.

Until I start to train heavy with snatch and c&js, I though I would concentrate on strength using a well-known strength program. The program is basically Starting Strength with variations on squats (hi-bar, front) and presses (sometimes behind the neck, sitting etc).

Could you recommend me other programs? I'm open to other ideas. I think my trainer would agree as long as I do some kind of squats and upper body movements in every training.



But I do the press/bench at least once, not exactly once. Every training, I do a lower body lift, then an upper body lift, then some assistance work. I do deadlifts only once a week. I hit the squats a bit lighter if I do deadlifts on the same day. E.g. my strength program of this week was as follows:

Monday: Squat, Bench Press, Chin-ups, Wrist Curls
Wednesday: Deadlift, Squat (light), Behind-the-neck Press
Friday: Front Squat, Bench Press, Weighted Dips, Wrist Curls
Saturday (at home): Dumbbell Lunges, Dumbbell Shoulder Press

About the wrist curls... I have some wrist pain (joint pain) during the snatch grip. Therefore my trainer said that the wrist curls and lots of wrist stretching could stabilize the wrists. What do you think about this recommendation?
To give you an example from personal experience. I followed Starting Strength strict for 3 months (My conditioning would be WODs on my off days. So I did 5 on 2 off). At a bodyweight of 145lbs through the entire three months my numbers went as such:

Squat (x5) 245-->300
Bench (x5) 155-->205
Press (x5) 115-->145
Clean (x3) 135-->185
Deadlift (x5) 245-->285

My advice would be to stay strictly on a program such as Starting Strength and use some of your other exercises as assistance work (i.e. Chin-ups, Wrist Curls, Weighted Dips, and Dumbbell Lunges). At your bodyweight it should take you a while to stall so long as your technique is right with no need to gain any weight. Best of luck!
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:08 AM   #19
Dane Thomas
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

Keep it up and you will see progress, but it might be instructive for you to define where you are most interested in making progress. Most would say that charting and looking for objective progress in the basic strength moves should precede the expectation of linear progress when it comes to c&j and snatch.

I'm 178cm and have varied between 70 and 77kg over the past 15 months (lowest in the midst of road cycling season last summer, highest this past spring after lots of heavy work/calories/protein and very little aerobic work.) I'm coming at things from the opposite end of the spectrum - have always been skinny and better at aerobic/body weight stuff than raw strength. Even so, at age 45 I'm lifting more than ever before. Squat 115kg, DL 155kg, Power Clean 85kg, all after less than 2 years of intermittent lifting.

With that in mind you can certainly expect continued progress. Try not to get hung up on how much or how fast, just that you are continuing on the right path and especially working on correct technique with the Oly lifting. Getting the timing and flexibility and angles rock solid before adding weight is key. Try not to get impatient or discouraged!

Best of luck.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:52 PM   #20
Rob St. Croix
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Re: Realistic Strength Goals Without Gaining Weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Cloutier View Post
i'm curious as to the rationale behind squatting 3 times a week, but only dead twice and only press/bench once...squatting and deadlifting are almost identical movements, and include very similar prime movers, if you go by what Westside says. So you are hitting the posterior chain 5 times a week, and only working your pushing/pressing/benching once...setting yourself up for a rude awakening.
In SS the squat is used on all days ((3) times a week) as it does a very effective job of warming up the major muscle groups used in the pulling lifts(SS, p289). The press exercises (Press or Bench-press respectively) are done after the squats in IOT allow the back and legs time to rest before said pulling lifts. Every other week the rotation will go from "A B A" to "B A B"

SS A
Squat 3x5
Bench-press 3x5
DL 1x5

SS B
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Hang Power Clean 3x5
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