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Old 08-21-2008, 05:39 AM   #1
Jay Cohen
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Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

I can sincerely appreciate all the hard work and risk that Coach G has put into developing the CF Business Model, and I think he’s definitely created the “better mousetrap” and people are beating a path to his door.

Doing some simple math and looking at the Event calendar, CF is hosting at least one Cert a weekend, sometimes two. So, if the average monthly average is say 6, which is on the low side, and average attendance is 75 (?) at a $1,000 a pop, we’re talking 72 Certs x 75 attendees x $1,000 equals $5,4000,000. Very cool and I think Coach deservers every dime.

My comment is, unless you’re planning to affiliate, attending a two day Cert for $1,000 is NOT the best value. The support material is a bunch of back issues of the Journal, which the last time I checked, were not even referenced or indexed, let alone printed. You have 5-6 hours of lecture, 7 hands on breakout sessions which vary in quality, pending your instructors, 2 hours of doing Fran-FGB and some Misc stuff. End of day Sunday, off you go with a Level 1 Cert doc. If you plan to affiliate, then you’re set to go with starting that process, if not, then its back home to use your new found skills and knowledge.

Wouldn’t that person NOT planning to Personal Train or Affiliate, be better off going to an Affiliate, spending 2,3,4 days working 1 on 1 with a trainer, say 3-4 hours per day. That person would leave with a much better skill set then just the 6-7 basic exercises that are taught at the cert and the affiliate would make money. Even if the attendee had to fly in, get a room, he’d still have to do that with attending a Cert.

Crossfit is rapidly changing, not sure if good or bad, but it seems like there are almost three different CF’s. You have HQ that is hosting Certs and posting WODS, the Affiliate’s doing there thing, and it’s my understanding most do not do the HQ posted WOD, but rather creates their own, and you have the individuals around the world that train on there own, who scale, follow a hybrid, do SS, what ever. Finally, you have the Forums which HQ does not participate in.

I guess to sum up, I would only recommend a Cert to someone thinking about affiliating and would highly recommend that someone wanting to learn the CF methodology to seek out a high quality Affiliate and spend his time and money there.
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:49 AM   #2
Camille Lore
 
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

That's the choice I made.
That and taking an adult gymnastics class for $150 for 3 months versus a CF Gymnastics cert.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:43 AM   #3
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

I did the logic differently,
I have a home gym and free access to several adequate base gyms. I decided that the 800 I spent on a cert would give me the baseline knowledge about CF, help me with form and intensity, help me train my teammates if provided the opportunity,give me a piece of paper, and teach me the 9 basic moves. Mission accomplished, now I can bring my cert to an affiliate to avoid the foundations class and just do the WOD, I'm more aware of intensity, and my money outlay is done in one piece.
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:01 AM   #4
Neil Khant
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

"Them's fightin words"

If you were looking for a fight you'll get it.

I think you are going to get opinions on both sides and everywhere in between. And some that will come at you for saying such a thing.

Honestly, I can see both sides. The beautiful thing is that Crossfit gives you the options to follow what works best for you.

If you want it all free, here it is, in all it's glory.

If you want assistance whether from an affiliate or through HQ its there for you too.

Choose your path, It's an individual thing.
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:36 AM   #5
George Mounce
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

Jay there is a comma off in your dollar figure.

You will get more out of buying Rip's books, and going to an affiliate than you would at a cert for your average CrossFitter for the same amount of money. Sure the cert was fun for me, but it was information I already knew. It was worth the $1000 to get a picture with Nicole though...

I do think some affiliates focus way too much on metcon, and not enough strength training.

I was very impressed by CrossFit SoCal (wish I still had a reason to go to San Diego just to hit them up) how it was required to go through a fundamentals program that stressed stength requirements, basic barbell movements and form before working into the metcon-based WODs.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:04 AM   #6
Joe Cavazos
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
I do think some affiliates focus way too much on metcon, and not enough strength training.
I believe, in my experience at least, this is largely due to two things:

1) Group classes are easier to manage doing metcons than strength training sessions. This would be due to time constraints and lack of equipment to accommodate everyone.

2) A lot of people going to affiliates aren't hardcore CrossFitters, and their main goal is usually to lose fat, which intense metcon sessions do wonderfully. Plus there's that irrational fear of bulking up that makes most women avoid strength training like the plague.

So, I wouldn't really fault affiliates for their metcon bias.

And to keep this on topic, I will say I agree with Jay 100%. Personally, I think you can learn more by hanging around the boards, reading the Journal, and occasionally visiting affiliates than by going to a Level 1 cert.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:18 AM   #7
Jay Cohen
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

Oops, correct appx estimate is $5,400,000. Sorry.

Thanks George.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:21 AM   #8
Bruce Drake
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

I would respectfully disagree with your assessment of the income potential of the certs. You account for all of the potential income, the place it in the pocket of one individual, which I doubt is the case. Some thoughts would be:

1. Does the affiliate receive anything for hosting? They provide the space, equipment, and whatever other hosting duties that are required.
2. Are there expenses associated with providing other trainers, airfare, hotels, meals etc.
3. Anybody pay income taxes lately?

I personally don't know if a cert is worth it. From posts I have read, and people I have talked to, it is a resounding yes. Perhaps those opinions are tainted by the fact that those people wanted to attend, and wanted to extract value. Because of this feedback, my wife and I are both going to attend a cert, whether it is our local affiliate hosting one, or flying someplace warm and sunny.

As a friend of mine is fond of saying, don't spend your money on stuff, spend it on experiences. Stuff breaks. Experiences last forever.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:36 AM   #9
Bonny Guang
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Drake View Post
As a friend of mine is fond of saying, don't spend your money on stuff, spend it on experiences. Stuff breaks. Experiences last forever.
Not if you have a bad memory.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:39 AM   #10
Tom Fetter
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

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Originally Posted by Bonny Guang View Post
Not if you have a bad memory.
That's what tattoos are for.
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