Not training the snatch?

[David Meverden]

My sentiments mostly echo those above but the waters were getting a little muddied between the full snatch and the power snatch, which I feel have completely different cost-benefit profiles.

Full Squat Snatch: Difficult to become proficient, takes lots of practice, can be very stressful on the body, limited application outside of olympic lifting. Rarely used in sport S&C programs for these reasons.

and

Power Snatch or Hang Power Snatch: Easy to learn well enough to get benefits, good way to include explosive power in a routine, good substitute if someone does not have the wrist flexibility or anthropometry to rack a clean, and light weight can be used reasonably in metcons by most. Widely used by sport S&C programs for these reasons.

So, for just garage workouts to stay in shape I agree: full squat snatch is more hassle than it's worth. But the power snatch (or, even easier to perform, the hang power snatch), is really different and something you should keep in your toolkit.

[Sean J Hunter]

Thanks David,

Somethings I hadn't considered.

Much appreciate the reply.

Sean

[Jason A Smith]

The progression of how you teach the snatch is also very important.

For exercisers start with the OHS and power snatch, then start by teaching the snatch balance and snatch pulls, then hang snatch variations and start to work on pulling from the floor. It will all lead to being able to snatch. The OHS and snatch balance will build confidence and mobility and will help with a bunch of other stuff as those positions help open up the shoulders and thoracic spine, which should help a bunch with other movements

There are also sots presses, behind the neck snatch push presses and the list goes on. I am currently dealing with a shoulder issue which limits how much snatching and gymnastics I can do. Once I am clear to start back up with the movements and patterns, we will start back up again.

Good luck and do not give up on it just yet !!

[Sean J Hunter]

Thanks Jason,

I'm also not convinced we are quite using the best teching progression either. I planned to put some time aside to study up a little more. Not much of an Oly man myself.

Thanks for the input

Sean

[Philipp Lendner]

I would like to add that even among high level oly lifters the power snatch is rarely lower than 80-85 % of the full squat snatch (and that is for the most proficient athletes). That said, a 160 kg squat snatch is nice; but I would be fine with a 130 kg power snatch as well
For athletes not training the snatch as often the power variation will be in the 90+ % (even 100+ % for those with mobility and/or stability issues) range. Adding just a few kg to an exercise will in most cases not be worth the work you need to put into it.

[Steven Thunander]

I would keep them in, but just train them with the PVC pipe or empty bar. If someone wants to go heavier and can, let them; especially if they are planning on doing the Open in February. But have them train it on the side or outside the group class.

[Aaron Gainer]

Do variations such as overhead squat, snatch balance, and hang snatch. I find it is easier for my students to learn the proper technique without frustration.

FWIW, I had my football athletes only do full hang cleans during off and in-season training. When they tried full cleans, they were a cinch because they properly learned to finish their 1st and 2nd pulls.

[David Meverden]

Originally Posted by Aaron Gainer

Do variations such as overhead squat, snatch balance, and hang snatch. I find it is easier for my students to learn the proper technique without frustration.

FWIW, I had my football athletes only do full hang cleans during off and in-season training. When they tried full cleans, they were a cinch because they properly learned to finish their 1st and 2nd pulls.

My question there is why have them do squat cleans at all (from the hang or floor)? I don't see why training a fast reversal of direction into a deep squat is going to be helpful for a football player. Is it something just to add variety and get them excited about moving bigger weight or do you think there is a distinct benefit that can't be achieved with other, less skill dependent, lifts?

[Aaron Gainer]

Originally Posted by David Meverden

My question there is why have them do squat cleans at all (from the hang or floor)? I don't see why training a fast reversal of direction into a deep squat is going to be helpful for a football player. Is it something just to add variety and get them excited about moving bigger weight or do you think there is a distinct benefit that can't be achieved with other, less skill dependent, lifts?

Because teaching the full rom of the clean reinforces good technique on the powers. I spend a ton of time with my students after school reinforcing their full squat technique, and making sure they use a load that allows them to make great progress by training high frequency and low volume. I am all about injury prevention, and my training regimine this year as a 1st year S&C coach has cut the injuries in half(gone are the knee and back issues that plagued our team 2 years in a row, and we set a offensive record of 5000+ yards for 10 games).

We have a few of our seniors being looked at by D2 and D3 colleges(we are a smaller school that plays 8 man football) that are happy to hear we train athletes using the Big 3, Olympic lifts, and speed training.

[David Meverden]

Originally Posted by Aaron Gainer

Because teaching the full rom of the clean reinforces good technique on the powers. I spend a ton of time with my students after school reinforcing their full squat technique, and making sure they use a load that allows them to make great progress by training high frequency and low volume. I am all about injury prevention, and my training regimine this year as a 1st year S&C coach has cut the injuries in half(gone are the knee and back issues that plagued our team 2 years in a row, and we set a offensive record of 5000+ yards for 10 games).

We have a few of our seniors being looked at by D2 and D3 colleges(we are a smaller school that plays 8 man football) that are happy to hear we train athletes using the Big 3, Olympic lifts, and speed training.

Hmm, interesting. If you have a lot of time to work with them I guess I can see how that would be helpful. Can't do a terrible legs splayed out, low elbows "football clean" if you're doing a full squat clean.