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Old 07-20-2010, 07:22 PM   #81
Joe Mercurio
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

Look at all the events contained within a cut. If you had to choose between the following for your entire weekend to choose the fittest person which would you choose, and I think that will tell you the relative value in terms of scoring

1) 7k hill run, max deadlift ladder, 170m sandbag hill sprint
2) max ground to overhead, triplet (HSPU, KBs, GHD's), and a long hopper of 10 distinct movements)
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:45 PM   #82
Justin McCallon
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

...what about the Snatch event, which was made after a couple cuts? And what about the RHSPU compared to the Muscle-up event this year?

The point is that HQ isn't thinking "ok, we'll make the later events trivial and the earlier events important, and then we'll make the last events worth less by not normalizing the rankings." It just so happens that the first 3 events last year were very good.
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:47 PM   #83
Andy Gann
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Benjamin R. Greene View Post
I disagree with the whole thesis that someone should be able to "come from behind" at the very end and make up for poor performances in the beginning. I hate competitions where, for television's sake, the first rounds essentially get ignored to always generate an exciting "photo finish" by stacking all the weight on the final event. It always seemed contrived and gimmicky.

Why shouldn't each event get the same weight? If one athlete has a wonderful series of performances and is running away with the competition, how is that bad? The logic escapes me. In team sports, touchdowns don't count for 2 points in the first quarter, 3 in the second, 5 in the third, and fifteen in the fourth so as to ensure every game will remain competitive until the final seconds because any team could come from behind.

In CrossFit, where we are crowning the fittest man and woman on Earth, the rationale behind having the various events all count the same is even more important. If the final event is a deadlift, should the powerlifter who can't do a double-under or a muscle-up win because he crushes that event? If the final event or events was given all or most of the weight, there would be an element of gambling injected into the Games: The goal would be just to survive the cut and pray the final event was something you were great at.

If someone wants to win the CrossFit Games, they need to be good at everything and do well on the initial workouts as well as the final ones. The scoring system needs to stay like it is.
Then why not go all out the first 3/4 events and then sandbag the rest of the time? Is that what you'd rather see?

The point is that assigning points based on rank out of a total number of competitors is FINE until you change the total number of competitors but keep the points that were assigned ... I'm all for somebody clawing their way back into a competition if it is legitimate. IF it is not legitimate then I lose interest regardless. I'm all for somebody running away with a competition as long as it's legitimate. If it's not, then I could care less. If there is a good and valid reason why it's done this way then I will reconsider my opinion. But, for right now, I think they should reassign points after each cut.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:08 PM   #84
Joe Mercurio
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Andy Gann View Post
But, for right now, I think they should reassign points after each cut.
This just creates a new problem. Imagine you have 1 competitor who scored 12th, 12th, 12th, and 12th in 4 events before a cut and you had another competitor who scored 1st, 1st, 1st, and 45th (last) with both having a total of 48 points. Then cut the field in half and reassign points. Now the 2nd guy scores 1st, 1st, 1st, and 23rd for a total of 26 points and leaps ahead of the 1st competitor.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:13 PM   #85
Josh Crawford
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

That's why you just normalize the points based on the number of competitors for each event.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:34 PM   #86
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
And what about the RHSPU compared to the Muscle-up event this year?
What about it? Muscle-ups are a mainpage staple. All the competitors should have been prepared for them, and they make perfect sense as a pre-cut workout.

Katherine
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:44 PM   #87
Joe Mercurio
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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That's why you just normalize the points based on the number of competitors for each event.
And do you still feel confident this will work for non-normally distributed data?
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:55 PM   #88
Jason Casiano
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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proving my point lol
Now I'm lost. Are you saying that since she is only slightly smaller than Spealler, she is big for a woman? Plenty of female athletes that were bigger than Spealler. So what point did I prove exactly?
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:48 PM   #89
Josh Crawford
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Joe Mercurio View Post
And do you still feel confident this will work for non-normally distributed data?
Scale would be a more accurate term. Scale the points as follows. 45 competitors 45/45 = 1 point per place, 24 competitors 45/24 = 1.875 points per place, 16 competitors 45/16 = 2.1825 points per place. Each event gives you the same potential for gaining or losing overall placement without throwing away the previous performance like some of the scoring methods effectively do. That is how I rescored them with my original spread sheet.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:04 PM   #90
Justin McCallon
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
What about it? Muscle-ups are a mainpage staple. All the competitors should have been prepared for them, and they make perfect sense as a pre-cut workout.

Katherine
Umm... not sure if you read the discussion. He was saying that all the pre-cut WODs were better measures of fitness than the post-cut WODs. My point was that the RHSPU workout was almost identical to the muscle-up workout....
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