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Old 02-24-2014, 06:47 PM   #21
Alex Chaney
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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Originally Posted by Jason Denny View Post
Good point. The sport of weightlifting is unknown here it seems. I tell someone I weightlift they think I mean I curl weights and bench press.
So true.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:51 PM   #22
Alex Chaney
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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I wish people would stop quoting riptoe's stance on oly lifting.
I also wish riptoe would stop voicing his opinion on things he doesnt understand.
Calm down, do you think Mark Rippetoe is the only person who thinks strength matters a great deal in the sport of olympic weightlifting?

On a different note, people give Rip a lot of crap about his methods but they speak for themselves, he is nearing 60 and can still squat 405, press 200 over his head and can deadlift 500.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:41 PM   #23
Drew Watson
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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Originally Posted by Alex Chaney View Post
Calm down, do you think Mark Rippetoe is the only person who thinks strength matters a great deal in the sport of olympic weightlifting?

On a different note, people give Rip a lot of crap about his methods but they speak for themselves, he is nearing 60 and can still squat 405, press 200 over his head and can deadlift 500.
you need to be strong to weightlift you say? shocker.. riptoe has produced 0 weightlifters of any caliber, that speaks for itself. he just makes controversial articles and claims now to try to stay relevant.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:43 PM   #24
Andrew G Parker
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

"It's not an either/or thing. You can get strong and learn correct technique concurrently with no problem whatsoever."

Besides being true, I'd say that both are imperative. Without good technique, you will be severely limited in how much you will be able to lift and are at risk of injury. All other things being equal, someone with good technique will be able to lift more than someone else of the same strength with poor technique.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:31 AM   #25
Marshall Flagg
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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In other words if your a novice/beginner (including myself here), you shouldn't worry about your snatch, clean and jerk until your squatting at least 400 pounds.
Maybe YOU shouldn't worry about the snatch, clean and jerk until YOU are squatting 400 pounds. Me, I'll take my measly 380 B/S, 325 F/S and train solely weightlifting for the foreseeable future. My deficiencies in weightlifting have nothing to do with my strength.

A weightlifting coach was speaking in a class I attended who told of a weightlifter who you all should know, would routinely get pinned under a clean well under his 1RM front squat. He also spoke of another who stood up a clean equal to or just over his 1RM F/S then jerked it, setting some sort of record.

I am a shining example of receiving a couple years of garbage Crossfit weightlifting coaching by unqualified people and am working hard on pulling myself out of that abyss. Since I am not a particularly naturally gifted athlete and am kinda old, I can't just do an EMOM of a hang power snatch or clean every couple weeks and even dream of becoming proficient.

In my opinion, someone should worry about the Olympic Lifts at the moment they find they really enjoy doing them.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:12 AM   #26
Alex Chaney
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

Just because I quoted Rip doesn't mean I agree with everything he says. For example, I wouldn't prescribe low bar squats for an olympic lifter and of course one would have to practice the full oly lifts if he/she were to compete. I might even go as far to say I believe the high bar squat is a better squat than the low bar if sufficient posterior chain work is provided, but that's another topic altogether. All I'm saying is people need to prioritize strength especially if they are beginners.

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Old 02-25-2014, 10:22 AM   #27
Jason Fischer
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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Originally Posted by Alex Chaney View Post
Calm down, do you think Mark Rippetoe is the only person who thinks strength matters a great deal in the sport of olympic weightlifting?

On a different note, people give Rip a lot of crap about his methods but they speak for themselves, he is nearing 60 and can still squat 405, press 200 over his head and can deadlift 500.
That may be the case, but what are his snatch/clean+jerk numbers? No one here is denying that strength is important in weightlifting, but building strength and technique are not mutually exclusive. At the end up of the day, it really doesn't matter what your numbers are as long as you can stand up out of the bottom of a clean or snatch.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:34 AM   #28
Anthony Hernandez
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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I feel in the US, we have a tendency to overlook strength and get caught up with the speed and technique aspect of olympic lifting too early. Of course technique is everything in whatever you do however strength in my opinion especially for olympic lifting is just as important (truth is IF YOUR STRONG, YOU CAN BE WRONG). If we focused on strength more, we would be doing much better at the olympics. The article that sparked the motivation for me to write this was this: http://www.allthingsgym.com/larrys-c...n-jerks-pulls/ (wfs). Chinese Olympic Weightlifting Coach Fang states "BEGINNERS MUST FOCUS ON ABSOLUTE STRENGTH FOR MANY YEARS". For a sport of speed strength and technical precision like olympic weightlifting, absolute strength must be damn important for an awarded oly coach to say it. Look at lifters like Klokov who can high bar squat over 700 pounds or Lü Xiaojun who squats in the mid 600s+. Even Crossfit Games champion Rich Froning spends 8 months out of the year predominantly focusing on getting his squat, press and deadlift numbers up. Have you noticed the majority of successful strongmen who compete in events that require a huge power output are/were powerlifters who compete in the slow lifts.

In other words if your a novice/beginner (including myself here), you shouldn't worry about your snatch, clean and jerk until your squatting at least 400 pounds.

"Who can clean more, someone with a 200lb deadlift or someone with a 500lb deadlift." - Rip

Your idea is intuitive, but not quite right.

Most US Olympic weightlifters that are top in their weight classes have squats, dead lifts and other "absolute strength stuff" that are comparable to their international counterparts. The exception here might be our smallest weight classes such as women's 48 and men's 56. But even in the case of the 56 kg division we have Darren Barnes who has snatched 110 and jerked 145. He can also front squats the USAPL raw record BS for sets of 2 (180 kg).

Weightlifting is not an absolute strength sport. And absolute strength will not give dividends to competitive lifters. A 220 kg (485) BS suffices to CJ about 180 kg (about 400 pounds). If you cannot jerk 180 kg and can squat 300 kg. More squatting will not improve your chances of nailing that CJ.

US lifters lag internationally for a host of reasons. Here are just a few: they start the sport at to late of an age, they have reduced mobility, virtually no GPP, poor coaching and planning, are often competing in weight classes that are to heavy e.g. poor nutrition, and most importantly they are part of a poorly run administration.
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Last edited by Anthony Hernandez : 02-25-2014 at 10:36 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:44 AM   #29
Drew Watson
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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Your idea is intuitive, but not quite right.

Most US Olympic weightlifters that are top in their weight classes have squats, dead lifts and other "absolute strength stuff" that are comparable to their international counterparts. The exception here might be our smallest weight classes such as women's 48 and men's 56. But even in the case of the 56 kg division we have Darren Barnes who has snatched 110 and jerked 145. He can also front squats the USAPL raw record BS for sets of 2 (180 kg).

I lifted with the barnes' for about 3 months at ecg, and im 100% certain he is not front squatting that, the older barnes and I were about the same squatting strength(highbar and front), and I hold the usapl raw squat record for the weight above what his pl class would be.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:02 PM   #30
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Re: The Importance of Strength in Olympic Weightlifting and Other Power Output Activi

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I lifted with the barnes' for about 3 months at ecg, and im 100% certain he is not front squatting that, the older barnes and I were about the same squatting strength(highbar and front), and I hold the usapl raw squat record for the weight above what his pl class would be.
He posted it on FB about a week ago. His 110, and 145 were posted yesterday. All were done at the OTC. Darren has front squatted over 180 at 56. And I am certain 175 is (maybe was) the USAPL RAW BS record at 56 kg. I am aware of your record at 67 kg. If you think about it FS'ing 30 to 40 kg more than your CJ is not out of line.

http://www.goheavy.net/records/viewr...d-13f80fce4046 (WFS)

Yet another reason why I like CrossFit more-and-more. There are no weight classes.
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