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Old 10-21-2008, 10:55 PM   #1
Ben Chapman
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Money vs. Mouth

This is a different sort of thread:

One thing I notice on these boards is that some people really feel that their advice is truly the best. Many have things pretty clearly figured out.

So this thread is where we back it up. This is where - if you are an advice giver - you post your numbers; publicly for all to see. I thought of this as I was thinking about some of the times I reply to beginners threads etc, but am I really backing up what I am saying? Does my own performance lend some credibility to the advice I so willingly meter out? If I am honest with myself, I would say it doesn't all the time. So now folks can judge if I am full of it.

Don't post on this thread without first posting:

Height: 6'5"
Weight: 230
%Body Fat: (if known) ~9%
a Benchmark WOD (i.e. Fran ,Grace, Helen, 30 MU for time etc.) Fran: 5:03
FGB score: 360
Bench: 275
OH Press: 165
Backsquat: 310
Deadlift: 510
Front Squat/Squat clean: 200(front squat, no number on squat clean, haven't gone for max yet)
Overhead squat: 175
Snatch and/or Clean and jerk: 235(C/J, no snatch number)
5K: 20:45
Row benchmark (2K, 1K 500M): 2K 6:38 1K 3:08 500M: 1:21

I think these numbers give a pretty good cross section of where somebody is at as far as progression, they can show if claims are backed with some results. It's pretty simple, post the numbers you have, if you don't have a number for an event, say so. If you don't like the thread, feel free to ignore it. I just thought it would be interesting.

Obviously I need a lot of work with olyimpic lifts. I would say for my body weight, I could use some with power lifts as well. At my size, I should be much stronger.

This is meant just for getting folks on the same page, it isn't a workout log, just a place for people to see where you're at when they read advice that's thrown around.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:31 PM   #2
Brandon Oto
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

I disagree with the premise here. You recognize that under this model, Glassman's training advice would have no weight?

In any case everything I've ever noted worth seeing is available from the link in my sig.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:43 PM   #3
Ben Chapman
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
I disagree with the premise here. You recognize that under this model, Glassman's training advice would have no weight?

In any case everything I've ever noted worth seeing is available from the link in my sig.
Not everyone is so open with their numbers as you are in your sig, which is fine. There's not really a premise. If you know what you're talking about, you should be willing to show what you can do. Again, if you disagree with the thread, you can steer clear of it. All my stuff is posted in the workout logs, this is just a central place to see a cross section of a big part of it.

I understand that Coach doesn't have the personal performance numbers to back his incredible knowledge of fitness, what HE has is his years of empirical evidence and experimentation with clients, as well as scientific research. The typical board member on here doesn't have the depth of experience, knowledge or experimentation as coach, so for a lot of people, the only thing they are going to measure is what THEY DO. That's what this is for. If I'm off base, the mods should delete it. But I'm willing to bet I'm not the only curious one. Please don't misunderstand me as saying that credibility is negated without a record of outstanding personal performance; that's a logical fallacy, I am just interested to see what people post.

Again, there are plenty of threads on here that I don't have an interest in reading, so I stay out of them, leave them be and don't post there. I would expect the same for this thread. If you think it's a dumb thread, no one is making you come in and read it.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:48 PM   #4
Caleb Johnson
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

Great thread idea. Oto, I think I get your point, you can be a great coach/advice giver without being a great performer, but in Coach's case, he has some kick@ss performers backing him up. I'm still more apt to listen to someone who IS a firebreather than someone who knows the theory to becoming a firebreather.
I don't give much advice, but my stats are:

Height: 5'4
Weight: 145
% bf: 5-8 depending on my alcohol intake the night before
FGB: 329
Linda: 17:15
Fran: 3:11
Bench: at least 250
Back Squat: 265
OHS: 155
DL: 325
5k: 20:45
Let's keep this going!
BTW, Ben, you have a great 5k time considering how big you are!
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:51 PM   #5
Brandon Oto
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

Nicely argued.

I don't have anything against the existence of this thread. The above was my way of participating.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:57 PM   #6
Caleb Johnson
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

To take this one step further, you could also ask if a person's benchmarks were recorded at a globo gym or at the local affiliate. Because your workout buddy at the globo gym is definitely not going to be scoring your FGB the same way the owner of your nearest box will be...
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:27 AM   #7
Ben Chapman
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

This is a good point. Most people also have a tendency to give themselves a lot of leeway when it comes to scoring. I have personally seen a lot of times set that were definitely not legit(bad pullups, high squats, incomplete lifts etc). That being said this is an online forum and trying to haggle out what scores are legit or not won't go anywhere, the honor system will have to apply.

In the long run, the only ones hurt by inflated or inaccurate scoring, are the people posting them (and maybe the rep of their gym if applicable).

You know if you're legit, so post what's legit.
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:23 AM   #8
James Withington
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

Height: 5'8"
Weight: 71Kg
%Body Fat: ~10%
a Benchmark WOD (i.e. Fran ,Grace, Helen, 30 MU for time etc.) Fran: 7:23, Cindy: 22 rounds, Linda: 24:--
FGB score: never done it
Bench: 117.5kg
OH Press: 65kg
Backsquat: 142.5kg
Deadlift: 167.5kg
Front Squat: 110kg
Overhead squat: 65kg
Snatch and/or Clean and jerk: 92.5kg C&J, 62.5kg snatch
5K: ???
Row benchmark (2K, 1K 500M): 2K 7:33 1K ??? 500M: 1:35


I have to agree with Oto's original argument though. Good figures do NOT necessarily equal a good advice giver. Someone could be crap at performing the actual moves/workouts for a variety of reasons (age, injury, ill-health etc), but that doesn't mean they can't be a great teacher to others. Similarly, someone could be freakishly naturally gifted and be a genuine "firebreather" without being any good at giving useful advice to those seeking it, or assessing good movement/technique in others.

I'm pretty far from being a great athlete. My basic strength stats aren't bad considering my size/weight, but my metabolic conditioning is pretty mediocre. I'm well aware of my weaknesses. However, I have a good subject knowledge, am qualified, and have decent experience training people professionally and working in the health and fitness industry. I think those 3 things are much more important in terms of judging someone's ability to hand out advice than a bunch of stats and figures on certain workouts (many of which some people may feel the need to lie about).

Just my 2p.
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:56 AM   #9
Manuel DeLeon
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

I Disagree with ben, I personally am not a super athlete, nor am I certified on anything related to exercise, nutrition, health and so on. At most, I can give my most humble opinion. I come here to learn what I can, and meet some folks with somewhat similar ambitions for better fitness. If a person wishes to argure with me, and I can't think of why, my email address was given when I signed up. If you wish to do so, in a far more passionate manner than what is sutiable for this forum, feel free to email/PM me. I can always respond or ignore it.

What I don't agree with is the addage of performance being the clinching point on someone's expertiese of fitness and health. I can bench 350 pounds but, in all honesty, can barely tell you what bio-mechanics are involved in the exercise or the repsonse the human body gets out of doing the bench or any other exercise. For that I rely on folks like Coach Rippetoe and Glassman. and any certified affiliate/trainers. They got the first hand experiance, science/research, and have spent a considerable amount of time simply Thinking of the related subjects.

and of course, I will always agree, that as long as there is a forum, a person can ignore a post or respond to it. the Moderators will take care of the in-between stuff. I always enjoy reading and communicating with others on this matter.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:13 AM   #10
Henry Miller
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Re: Money vs. Mouth

Numbers: Well I'm not overweight. As for the rest, just assume terrible and you will be close enough.

There is a big difference between knowing how to do something, teaching it, doing it right, and doing it well. By doing well I mean good numbers, by doing it right I mean form (I'm not sure how to say that better). Knowing how to do something is a requirement for teaching, the rest is not. Form is not a requirement for good numbers - but you are likely to get hurt. Anyone (except the blind) can look at a video of someone doing a pullup and say "chin wasn't over the bar", but most people can't do a pull-up.

Of course whenever someone tells you something you need to decide for yourself if you accept it. I don't know anyone alive who is perfect (I'm ignoring religion). That includes me. I try to keep my mouth shut if I'm not sure of my answer, but even then I've been shown wrong more than once. I suspect there are other cases where I'm wrong as well, but I belive that in the majority of the cases I'm right. You will have to decide for yourself if you belive me.
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