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Old 01-09-2009, 09:21 AM   #21
Ed Haywood
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Re: Running with X-Vest or Rucksack

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I have successfully passed a STA indoc, and will tell you right now, I would have failed on the ruck run if I hadn't been doing it off and on, on my own.
Caleb, that illustrates the main point I'm trying to make. You didn't do STA indoc right out of high school. You did basic and infantry school at a minimum, and probably served in a battalion for a while before you tried out for STA, right? By that point you knew what would be expected of you and how to train for it. That is far different than some kid at home reading a SEAL website and thinking he needs to start ruck running now. Would you not concur that it would have been a waste of your time to ruck run prior to enlisting, or at least much less productive than crossfit/lifting/running/cycling/swimming?
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:25 AM   #22
Jackson Mayer
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Re: Running with X-Vest or Rucksack

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Originally Posted by Ed Haywood View Post
I hope I didn't sound condescending. Everyone starts out as a wannabe, nothing wrong with that. I did too. Just don't want you guys to get over-enthusiastic and injure yourselves before you ever start the actual training. In my experience with special ops selection courses, injuries are a major cause of failure. Generally speaking, if you are in reasonably good shape, don't get hurt, and keep going no matter how bad it sucks, you will make it. So don't put yourself behind the power curve with some developing orthopaedic injuries before you even start.

And I don't think there's any way to train for the "keep going no matter how bad it sucks." You either have that demented gene or you don't.
No man, you didnt sound condescending, the honesty is greatly appreciated. Id rather you tell me not to do it then tell me to go ahead with it and find out down the road that i'm in a wheel chair by the age of 18.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:10 AM   #23
Caleb Johnson
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Re: Running with X-Vest or Rucksack

Ed, Thanks for answering my question. I understand where you're coming from, and definitely agree that a SEAL hopeful would be best served spending the majority of their time running/crossfitting/swimming. I will also agree that 17 year olds will take things to the extreme, so given the choice, it's probably more responsible to tell them to do less rather than more.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:43 AM   #24
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Running with X-Vest or Rucksack

There's an element safety in prescribing Ruck humps and runs separately, at least when I was in NSW, kind of like training assistance exercises. When you combine the two for a test, the suck is less. IME.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:55 AM   #25
Rob Ord
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Re: Running with X-Vest or Rucksack

Although I train with belief that the warrior athlete is forged in the fire of adversity, I agree that there is no value in purposefully injuring yourself. It is paramount that you train smart. If you've never run with a weight vest or rucksack, don't start out by packing everything you own into the biggest pack you have. Be smart and start with a camel back. Later you can increase the weight to a pack with a bag of rice and a pillow. I don't generally like to use weight above 35lbs for ruck running.

Note also that when you do a ruck run, you don't run like you're doing a 400 meter sprint. Often it's more like the airborne shuffle (a little faster than a walk but slower than a run).

I design the Full Mission Profile for the fit and the experienced. Like the WODs found on the main page, if you need to scale down, do it. You wouldn't jump into a 135lbs snatch WOD if you've just learned the basics of the snatch by watching Coach B's videos (excellent as they are).

Running with a weight vest or rucksack, at least in my workouts, is not solely for the purpose of eliciting a physical response, but rather to cause the athlete to feel the adverse effects of the additional weight. For those that I train personally, I want to create a hunger for adversity, but not at the expense of forward progression in training. I've found that once an athlete gets to the point that they are comfortable in being uncomfortable, their confidence begins to grow. This is not done in one session though.

I use a Cycle of Training, which includes some weighted running. It is used sparingly though, at most once a week during the Extreme Training phase in the Full Mission Profiles. They are a way to culminate the weeks training in a test of physical and mental toughness.

Finally, I respect the opinions of others that speak from experience. As a mentor I take great pride in watching my trainees progress uninjured. There are some that I don't have under weight because they are not ready (and may never be). The tough part about the internet is that anyone can see a workout and try it, even though some might not be physically ready. Fortunately in this community, at least, the expectation is that individuals accept responsibility for themselves. Moral to the story here is "Know Thyself".
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Last edited by Rob Ord : 01-14-2009 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:28 AM   #26
Gary Turner
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Re: Running with X-Vest or Rucksack

Hi,

I use a weighted vest regularly in training, 44lbs (20kg).

The vest I have fits very well, no movement issues.

I speed walk with it, run with it, I shadow box with it, and I do padwork in it. Obviously not all the time though, I use it 'additionally' to give myself some variety in my training, not all the time. I'm a professional fighter, so I can't afford any injuries!

So, as I train so much with the British Army, I asked my friends there for advice. They came out on the trails and hills with me, and ensured I had 'soft knees, soft ankles, soft hips', correct posture and technique over inclines/declines uneven surfaces and had the correct 'shuffle' when I picked up the pace.

Running with a vest is not the same as just running.

They also helped me to increase the training loads gradually for my body to adjust to the additional weight.

They also told me not to, under any circumstances, run with a pack on. The reason is that packs place excessive strain on the body, in particular throwing the spine out leading to lower back, shoulders and neck issues.

The benefits I have had are noticable increased strength and range of strength in my ankles and knees, my core abdominals, 'useable' leg strength, calorific burn, and an increased load to help me reach cardio goals.

Just my opinion, based on my experience.

Best regards,

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