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Old 01-29-2012, 11:45 AM   #21
Andy Gann
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

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Originally Posted by Greg Frye View Post
Can you explain what a touch run is? Is that simply an easy run or a more moderate effort?

Yes, dropping weight would help alot. Of course, we don't want to sacrifice too much strength for future training if possible.
LOL - touch = tough!!!

Today was my long run. It wasn't TOO bad mentally, only had a couple of minutes where it was 'hard' - mainly, i guess i just get bored. The mile climb was kind of grueling but on the way back down (it was an out and back course) i was able to slow my breathing cadence quite a bit.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:55 AM   #22
Andy Gann
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

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Originally Posted by Greg Frye View Post
I'd personally suggest running 3 days a week at least. I think your idea is good but maybe do 3 days of running instead. So an easy long run, moderate 4-6, and then alternating between a tempo run & tempo intervals or short intervals would be a great idea. I do think that 3 days of running doing those runs will maximize your training per the amount of time you are running, but I do think that two days of running is too little for a half marathon. You could get away with it for a 5k, but 13.1 is pretty grueling. For you, I dont see any need to go over 10 miles for a long run. I mean it wouldn't hurt, but it would be better to use those miles at a tempo speed or some quicker intervals.

If you can run a 15k on a treadmill then major props to you. Running has a huge mental component to it, thats why I think most crossfitters can minimize their running and still perform well.

Also, for the shorter intervals, I would recommend doing most of them as 600m-1000m repeats. 6 x 600 w/ 200m walk recov., 5 x 800 w/ 400m easy jog recov., 4 x 1000 w/ 3min recov. would be great workouts. They are typically done @ 5k race pace, or around a min. faster then all out mile pace. These essentially are ideal for improving VO2 max, which is pretty essential for running performance.
See - the thing is that I have purchased another months worth of workout at a crossfit gym. With 3 days a week running, how can I still visit the gym twice a week and have a lifting day? Maybe i can just fit in one lift every day that I train and try to maintain my strength levels during all of this running ... lol
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #23
Rob Samuels
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

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Ok - so, i ran 5.15 miles today. Touch run w/ a 1 mile ascent and a 1/2 mile ascent plus a couple of short, steep hills.

My time was ~52:30 which is a 10:12ish pace. Do I have any chance to get that down to 9:10 by the race which is 2 months away?

I'll add that I'm 6-1 and 235# so I'm not the lightest thing. Maybe dropping 5 to 10 lbs over the next two months would help as well?
No.

You can certainly improve your time, no question, but your not even at half the distance running that 10:12 pace. Tack on another 8 miles and I think its safe to say you would be someplace in the 12-13 minute mile pace. So your asking if you can shave 3-4 minutes per mile off your pace and that is impossible under the circumstances.

I would concentrate on smart training for the next couple of months with the goal of just completing it with minimal walk breaks. Pushing yourself hard for two months hoping the extra effort will help you reach your goal will likely only get you injured and then you wont run at all.

There are hundreds of 1/2 marathons pick one 6 months away and work your training plan around that.

Good luck
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:03 PM   #24
Greg Frye
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

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No.

You can certainly improve your time, no question, but your not even at half the distance running that 10:12 pace. Tack on another 8 miles and I think its safe to say you would be someplace in the 12-13 minute mile pace. So your asking if you can shave 3-4 minutes per mile off your pace and that is impossible under the circumstances.

I would concentrate on smart training for the next couple of months with the goal of just completing it with minimal walk breaks. Pushing yourself hard for two months hoping the extra effort will help you reach your goal will likely only get you injured and then you wont run at all.

There are hundreds of 1/2 marathons pick one 6 months away and work your training plan around that.

Good luck
I wouldn't say it is impossible, but on two days of running a week then it will be very tough. Racing is completely different from training, since he ran a tough run at 10:12 pace doesn't mean he'll run 12-13 minutes a mile for the half. Obviously it is your endurance that is a problem, since you can run a 800 workout well. I really do suggest easy long runs and tempo work as a majority, if not all of your training. I do suggest picking a half in April to for sure hit your goal, but to run the best of your ability on race day even if you do or don't hit a time goal is more fulfilling IMO.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:08 PM   #25
Rob Samuels
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

If the 10:12 per mile he ran was at or even close to a hard effort then yes it is impossible.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:31 PM   #26
Elizabeth Ruiz
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

For what it's worth this is what my schedule looks like pretty much all year since I try to do between 5-6 half marathons a year. If I decide to do another full marathon I will of course change some things. I was a runner in school but now focus more on strength and do the runs for fun.

Day 1 Deadlift or Front Squat
Metcon between 10-15 minutes

Day 2 Hills-intervals (this is mostly because the first race I have this year is a mountain run)

Day 3 Press
Metcon between 10-15 minutes

Day 4 Rest

Day 5 Sprints

Day 6 Back Squat
Metcon between 10-15 minutes

Day 7 Long run

Day 8 Rest

And so on...

It's a 3 on 1 off. I may switch up the strength to work on my oly lifts. This is just a general idea.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:08 PM   #27
Andy Gann
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

I appreciate all the advice. The 10:12 was not 'hard' for me as I didn't really push but it was 'hard' because I live in a very hilly area. I've read that on your long run day you should take it easy. You should be able to carry on a conversation during your run, which I could do easily, except about 1/2 way up the mile climb ...... lol

So - i don't know. I don't want to injure myself and increase my running volume beyond what my body can take. In the past, i've had shin splint problems that haven't come into play until now (because I did some tuck jumps at a xfit workout last week that inflammed then). So, my running workout last night was curtailed. If I don't break 2 hrs well, big deal. If you aim at nothing then you hit nothing. I'd rather aim for the bullseye and just hit the target somewhere than just aimlessly run around my neighborhood like an idiot hoping that I can finish.

I'll hit another run this sunday - 6+ miles and am pretty sure that I'll be at the same pace. Thanks everybody for your advice. I think I am too close to really ramp up my running but, I have had a 9 minute pace in the past and feel that I could back to that point faster than somebody who is trying to attain something that they never had.

Thanks again! I'll keep posting how it goes .....
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:20 AM   #28
Jared Ashley
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

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Originally Posted by Rob Samuels View Post
No.

You can certainly improve your time, no question, but your not even at half the distance running that 10:12 pace. Tack on another 8 miles and I think its safe to say you would be someplace in the 12-13 minute mile pace.
The pace difference shouldn't be that big. In my experience pace doesn't change much once you get to runs over about half an hour (about 4 miles for me). going from a 5 mile run to a 13 mile run adds about a minute to my pace. I've only run over 10 miles four times in my life, so it's not due to adaptation to endurance running.

Nevertheless, I think it'd be very tough to take 2 minutes off one's pace in 2 months. My advice: run a very flat or even downhill course
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:18 AM   #29
Andy Gann
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

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Originally Posted by Rob Samuels View Post
No.

You can certainly improve your time, no question, but your not even at half the distance running that 10:12 pace. Tack on another 8 miles and I think its safe to say you would be someplace in the 12-13 minute mile pace. So your asking if you can shave 3-4 minutes per mile off your pace and that is impossible under the circumstances.

I would concentrate on smart training for the next couple of months with the goal of just completing it with minimal walk breaks. Pushing yourself hard for two months hoping the extra effort will help you reach your goal will likely only get you injured and then you wont run at all.

There are hundreds of 1/2 marathons pick one 6 months away and work your training plan around that.

Good luck
So - today, 6.04 miles at 59:20. That is 9:53 ish pace. One mile further, 20 seconds better per mile. Things that are different this week from last week: I was not as sore from my WOD'ing on thursday, itt wasn't the first time that I ran the course (I added 1/2 mile onto last week's run ... it is an 'out and back'), I had tunes, my shins weren't bothering me from doing 'tuck jumps' .....

Maybe those things helped, idk. It makes the end goal look that much more achievable although I'm not expecting to knock 20 seconds off my mile pace each week. But, I think I have a fighting chance. While I used to be an avid crossfitter at an affiliate where we would program 20/30 minute wods, one strength day a week, and one or two hard and fast metcons or intervals, I have spent more than a year following a couple of different strength programs with absolutely NO 'endurance' work over 20 minutes (GSLP and 'Train like and Athlete' by Jim Steel). I have put on 20 - 30 lbs since I was an avid crossfitter and I have no doubt that back then I could have maintained the pace that I am shooting for.

Anyways - who knows, all I can do is bust my butt, train smart (staying injury free is key), and have a good time on race day. I'll keep posting my progress here ......

Thanks to everybody for advice, tips, programming, etc .... I really appreciate it. Now, though, as the half is drawing nearer, I'm wondering about actual race strategies? Do I just go out and try to finish or is there a strategy to optimize my times? Like specifically targeting certain segments of the race to push and some to coast? I've heard that you should take it easy on ascents and then push a little on the descents .... Who has experience here?
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:30 PM   #30
Jared Ashley
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Re: Training for a half marathon - ideas? critique?

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Like specifically targeting certain segments of the race to push and some to coast? I've heard that you should take it easy on ascents and then push a little on the descents .... Who has experience here?
I do a lot of trail runs on (for trails) mild terrain. That means it's almost never actually flat, but the ups and downs are fairly gentle, though I may have a steady climb or drop for 1/2 mile or more.

Definately take it easy on ascents... you can let yourself breath just a tiny bit harder than on flat ground, but not much. On descents you don't so much need to "push" as just allow gravity to do the work. As long as it isn't steep downhill, you can lengthen your stride a bit and your speed will increase dramatically, even as your breathing eases. It takes a bit of practice, so play with it on your training runs. Most people expend a lot of energy slowing themselves down when they're running downhill... if you can learn how to reduce that braking you'll speed up, use less energy, and your knees will thank you.

For whole-race strategy, start out at a very easy pace, and let your body tell you to go faster after a mile or two. When I ran my 1/2 the first 6 mile split pace I did 9:17, and the 2nd half I did 7:56. I didn't feel like I had sped up, and the terrain was consistent so that wasn't it.
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