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Old 03-10-2010, 06:34 AM   #41
Gerhard Lavin
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by Trevor Shaw View Post
Of course not because that's like saying 'since the body can synthesize glycogen from an all fat and protein diet we don't need to eat carbohydrates'. Literally its true, but it doesn't make it a good idea.

Also, just because the body synthesizes its own (of anything) doesn't mean its making enough or doing so efficiently. Proper diet techniques and supplementation are key to ensuring this.
Which is thw same argument low carb advocates use against the requirement for dietary carbohydrates.

Give that most people in the western world, and athletes even more so, eat a diet high in animal protein any minimal requirements (not that they now exist) for saturates are more than adequately covered. Are you really advocating supplementing with saturated fat? The average American consumes about 40 g of saturated far per day.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:50 AM   #42
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by Trevor Shaw View Post
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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Does that book mention that your body can synthesize all the fats it needs apart from the n-6 and n-3 essential fatty acids so there is no dietary requirement for saturated fats?
Of course not because that's like saying 'since the body can synthesize glycogen from an all fat and protein diet we don't need to eat carbohydrates'. Literally its true, but it doesn't make it a good idea.

Also, just because the body synthesizes its own (of anything) doesn't mean its making enough or doing so efficiently. Proper diet techniques and supplementation are key to ensuring this.
I guess it also fails to mention that you only require ~20g of fat per day to maintain normal physiological functions then? Maybe you should take it back and ask for a refund.......

Now before anyone accuses me of saying that it would be healthy for you to reduce your fat intake to 20g/d I must point out that you will run into practical difficulties if your diet is too low in fat. This isn't because extra fat is needed for for any essential physiological functions it's because a diet that is too low in fat will be too low in energy for all but the most sedentary individuals. A little extra fat (and I do mean a little) helps increase the energy density of the diet thereby reducing the volume of food required each day to meet your energy needs. Of course if the diet contains too much fat the high energy density will increase your risk of weight gain, obesity and a number of chronic disease so, for an athlete, a fat intake of ~20-30% of total calories is generally recomended.

As for which fats you should eat, from a health perspective the ideal once your requirements for EFAs have been met would be for this extra fat to come from monounsaturated fats eg. olive oil, nuts or nut oils etc rather than polyunsatured or saturated fats because although there is no physiological requirement for monounsaturated fats they are associated with a reduced risk of CVD and some other chronic diseases.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:17 AM   #43
Steven Low
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Re: Saturated Fats

1. Avoid processed food.

2. Plants (vegetables, fruits, seeds and herbs) and animals (meat, fish, fowl, and eggs) should represent the entire composition of your diet.

OR

Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. (you should know where this one is from)


If saturated fat is in there from the meat, fish, fowl, eggs then so be it. It's HEALTHY (given that it's grassfed et al... if not you may have to supplement with fish oil... hence why most of us do that).
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:29 AM   #44
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by John Jaeckel View Post
Why do fats need to "prevent disease"?
This extract from Section 1: General Dietetic Principles and Practice of The Manual of Dietetic Practice (4th edition) by Dr Briony Thomas explains why -

Quote:
A healthy diet has to fulfill two objectives -

1: It must provide sufficient energy and nutrients to maintain normal physiological functions and permit growth and replacement of body tissues.

2: It must offer the best protection against the risk of disease.
(Note: All official dietary advice is based on these two principles)

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Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
There is evidence from both the Framingham and Hong Kong heart studies that there is no direct correlation between "elevated" total serum cholesterol and/or LDL specifically and CHD.

In fact, a great deal of research and evidence is pointing toward inflammation as the culprit in CHD. In fact, the positive effect of statin medications can be attritbuted to a reduction in arterial inflammation as much as reducing cholesterol levels. The reduction in cholesterol levels might be totally coincidental.
Evidence is equivocal on this so as there is no dietary requirement for saturated fats I see no reason not to follow current advice to keep your intake as low as possible.

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Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
The "current advice" (anything out there that advocates reduced saturated fat intake) also includes eating 10-12 servings of grains a day. This, in turn, especially with the ingestion of even small amounts of simple carbohydrate, has been shown to elevate triglycerides (more likely a culprit in CHD) and blood sugar, which causes the pancreas to have to work harder, often leading to hyperglycemia and type 2 diabetes (a huge causal factor in CHD— see inflammation).
Yet levels of CVD are generally low in countries where people traditionally eat a high carbohydrate low fat grain based diet.

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Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
Saturated fat is not a cure for anything; a better, more natural balance of Omega 3 fatty acids to Omega 6 fatty acids, more likely is.
The evidence that the ratio of n-6:n-3 EFAs is important is equivocal however based on current evidence (and the balance of probability) it seems likely that the traditional low fat Japanese diet with it's low saturated fat content and n-6:n-3 ratio of around 4:1 - 2:1 is fairly close to the ideal.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:50 AM   #45
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Saturated Fats

+1 to Steven's last post. My feeling is if you follow such a plan you will do pretty good.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:47 AM   #46
John Jaeckel
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
This extract from Section 1: General Dietetic Principles and Practice of The Manual of Dietetic Practice (4th edition) by Dr Briony Thomas explains why -



(Note: All official dietary advice is based on these two principles)



Evidence is equivocal on this so as there is no dietary requirement for saturated fats I see no reason not to follow current advice to keep your intake as low as possible.



Yet levels of CVD are generally low in countries where people traditionally eat a high carbohydrate low fat grain based diet.



The evidence that the ratio of n-6:n-3 EFAs is important is equivocal however based on current evidence (and the balance of probability) it seems likely that the traditional low fat Japanese diet with it's low saturated fat content and n-6:n-3 ratio of around 4:1 - 2:1 is fairly close to the ideal.
Incidence of type 2 Diabetes is growing exponentially in India and China, stands to reason that rates of CVD will rise in subsequent years and decades.

I don't disagree with you that there is no argument for saturated fat per se. Where I disagree with you is in making saturated fat the bad guy.

That line of thought is foundational to the overall mythology of the USDA Food Pyramid, fat is bad, grains are good, etc.

Evidently, you're up on some science. And while there are no contemporary studies on the diets of our pre-agricultural ancestors, there is hard science on genetics, evolution and natural history— more than enough to tell us that modern "standards" and "recommendations" for macronutrients vis a vis optimal health are flawed when you take the broad, yet (in a bio-evolutionary sense) accurate view of the optimal human diet, especially with regard to carbohydrates and fats (regardless of saturated, Omega 3, Omega 6, etc.).

Obesity, auto-immune disorders (again, many of which are now being scientifically linked to gluten, dairy and, yes, eggs) and type 2 diabetes are afflictions of modern man, and, in all likelihood not a consequence of ingesting saturated fats.

There is mounting scientific evidence that c-reactive protein is a better indicator of one's risk of a coronary event than total serum cholesterol, LDL or HDL:LDL ratios. The "saturated fat is bad" hypothesis underlies the conventional wisdom that HDL, LDL and triglycerides are accurate predictors of heart disease risk. In fact, there is evidence that challenges the conventional wisdom that there is a cause and effect relationship between saturated fat consumption and the body's production of cholesterol.

And, cholesterol, even LDL and VLDL, in fact, has a positive role in human health. And it is vastly more complicated than most are led to believe.

The French and others who follow a true "Mediterranean" diet have actually consumed large amounts of butter, cream, beef and pork, yet they have historically low CVD rates.

Also, the Japanese consume a great deal of beef in addition to seafood and sea vegetables.
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Last edited by John Jaeckel; 03-10-2010 at 08:52 AM..
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:13 AM   #47
Christie Warner
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Re: Saturated Fats

It's sorta old news that Saturated Fats are not the cause of high tris. Hell, look at what the mainstream *gasp* AHA says? That a diet high in carbohydrates are the cause of high triglycerides, which in turn can lead to diseases such as diabetes.

"Many people have high triglyceride levels due to being overweight/obese, physical inactivity, cigarette smoking, excess alcohol consumption and/or a diet very high in carbohydrates (60 percent of more of calories). High triglycerides are a lifestyle-related risk factor; however, underlying diseases or genetic disorders can be the cause.

A triglyceride level of 150 mg/dL or higher is one of the risk factors of metabolic syndrome. Metabolic syndrome increases the risk for heart disease and other disorders, including diabetes."

Taken from http://www.americanheart.org/present...3#Triglyceride (WFS)at very bottom of page.

A diet rich in carbohydrates? Not much of a shocker to me personally.
This was last posted in July of last year. Fairly recent.
Bottom line: the "SFA is bad" argument is a very old school idea that is quickly falling by the wayside.

Seek more information from this link...it is WFS

Last edited by Christie Warner; 03-10-2010 at 09:17 AM..
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:33 AM   #48
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by Ger Lavin View Post
Which is thw same argument low carb advocates use against the requirement for dietary carbohydrates.

Are you really advocating supplementing with saturated fat?
I'm not saying that you should eat spoonfuls of fat or go gulping down oil, but plenty of research has shown MCT's to be effective in weight loss wfs (ie http://www.absoluteorganix.co.za/mct1.pdf), add in the other benefits of coconut an palm kernel oils that were discussed earlier and it may be wise to use small amounts of these oils while cooking and preparing foods instead of the zero calorie sprays and other lower quality oils. That was all I was saying.

Darryl,
I'm sorry I didn't realize we were discussing the most absolute literal distinction between essential and non essential. I was simply making the point that even though those fatty acids may not be "essential" they still have tremendous benefits for improving health and longevity. Diets higher in fat have gotten a bad wrap over the past few years as our society becomes more reliant on grains and corn products for food. Lets not forget, the real enemy of the human body is refined sugar.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:49 AM   #49
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Saturated Fats

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So... I feel pretty safe in disregarding a lot of the CW concerning nutrition. Also, one must take into account how much $$ circulates around food. Where there's money, there is power; where there is power, there are special interests; where there are special interests, truth and wellness take the backseat to greed. The amount of political pull the big-agro industry has is undeniable. If you tell people sat. fat is bad, they will HAVE to eat more grains!
And of course the various meat lobbies are completely uninterested in promoting their products?

I agree that large scale food producers have had an unhealthy impact on the government's nutritional pronouncements. But the implication that large scale agriculture is an evil conspiracy while large scale livestock production has only our best interests in mind is somewhat ridiculous.

Katherine
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:57 AM   #50
John Jaeckel
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Re: Saturated Fats

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And of course the various meat lobbies are completely uninterested in promoting their products?

I agree that large scale food producers have had an unhealthy impact on the government's nutritional pronouncements. But the implication that large scale agriculture is an evil conspiracy while large scale livestock production has only our best interests in mind is somewhat ridiculous.

Katherine
Completely agree.
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