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Old 02-22-2009, 01:19 PM   #121
Jon Levy
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Chris, thanks for this opportunity to post questions and seek answers in a specific place. I have some nitpicky ones about the CFSB Programming template in the Journal:

1) Week Six - Front Squat is the only lift for which 1RM is not prescribed. Is that intentional or a misprint? If intended, why?

2) Week Five - Front Squat day does not include high rep Back Squat or Metcon. Is that intentional? If so, why?

3) Some days say "Choose either: 3x3 or 3x5" and some say "Choose either: 3x3 or 5x3." Are you drawing a distinction between 3x5 and 5x3 in those cases? My understanding is that AxBxC = C sets of B reps of A pounds, but for the "Choose either: 3x3 or 3x5" days, I'm assuming that 3x5 means a 5RM scheme. Is that correct?

4) Back Squat goes from "3x5 or 5x3" in Week Two to "3x3 or 3x5" in Week Three. I'm assuming it's the same thing written in different ways--that in both cases one chooses between a 5RM day or a 3RM day. Yes?

5) Week Five - Deadlift says "Choose either: 3x3," and there is no other choice. Should there be?

6) Week One - Deadlift does not offer a choice. Are you recommending that we start off with 3RM deadlift (or some percentage of a 3RM, as it is Week One), and not 5RM?

A final thought: I know that I could answer all of those myself through trial and error, and that the program is infinitely tweakable. But I thrive on following programming by experts exactly as is, and saving creativity for a later time when I'm more familiar with the whole thing. That being said, I also second the call for a CFSB website. Thank you, Jeff, Bingo, and all the testers!
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:08 PM   #122
Anthony Dubis
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

What sort of rests do you guys use for the 10-7-4, 12-9-6, and 15-12-9 protocols? Am I right in assuming that we pick a weight and use it for all three sets? Also, on the spreadsheet it shows something liked 12=>15 Reps or 12=>20 Reps under the protocols. What are those supposed to mean? Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:03 PM   #123
Wade Smith
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

I did the Deadlift workout today 3-3-3 up to 325lbs.
I then chose and performed a metcon that was a 135lb clean and pushup quickie (8mins worth).

My question: Is it important to pick metcon exercises that don't duplicate some of the strain of the heavy sets that day?

For instance, on a DL day, would it be more optimal to avoid heavy cleans (or back extensions) in favor of exercises that don't engage as much mid to lower back? I'm curious how much to "work around" the heavy sets so as I don't push a muscle group too hard and work counter to the necessary recovery expectation built into the CFSB program.

I hope that makes sense. Thanks for replying.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:04 AM   #124
David Easton
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

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Originally Posted by Anthony Dubis View Post
What sort of rests do you guys use for the 10-7-4, 12-9-6, and 15-12-9 protocols? Am I right in assuming that we pick a weight and use it for all three sets? Also, on the spreadsheet it shows something liked 12=>15 Reps or 12=>20 Reps under the protocols. What are those supposed to mean? Thanks.
Anthony - for the 10-7-4, 12-9-6 and 15-12-9 protocols, use 1 min rest between sets and use the same weight for all 3 sets

The 12=>15 and 12=>20 reps are meant to mean do a set of between 12 and 15 reps or a set between 12 and 20 reps.

Hope this helps
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:37 AM   #125
Anthony Dubis
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

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Originally Posted by David Easton View Post
Anthony - for the 10-7-4, 12-9-6 and 15-12-9 protocols, use 1 min rest between sets and use the same weight for all 3 sets

The 12=>15 and 12=>20 reps are meant to mean do a set of between 12 and 15 reps or a set between 12 and 20 reps.

Hope this helps
Thanks, my man!

And Wade, personally, I wouldn't worry too much about working a certain movement in the same day just so long as it balances out in the long run. Crossfit recommends that you look at exercises as performing a certain function rather than working a certain muscle group. For instance, deadlifts are picking something up off the ground and shoulder presses are putting a weight overhead. So when you are planning your exercises, trying to mix them up. I wouldn't be afraid of doing ME movements and then very light/gymnastic movements of the same kind. Hope that helped!
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:49 AM   #126
Frank DiMeo
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

CFSB is right on target! Thanks!
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:18 AM   #127
Wade Smith
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

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Originally Posted by Anthony Dubis View Post
Thanks, my man!

And Wade, personally, I wouldn't worry too much about working a certain movement in the same day just so long as it balances out in the long run. CrossFit recommends that you look at exercises as performing a certain function rather than working a certain muscle group. For instance, deadlifts are picking something up off the ground and shoulder presses are putting a weight overhead. So when you are planning your exercises, trying to mix them up. I wouldn't be afraid of doing ME movements and then very light/gymnastic movements of the same kind. Hope that helped!
I appreciate the comments. Thanks. But both the DLs and the Cleans (in the metcon) were both heavy (for me, at least). Maybe I'm just nervous when I go heavy with DLs because of all the injury posts and my past predilection towards overtraining.
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:19 AM   #128
Wade Smith
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

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Originally Posted by Anthony Dubis View Post
Thanks, my man!

And Wade, personally, I wouldn't worry too much about working a certain movement in the same day just so long as it balances out in the long run. CrossFit recommends that you look at exercises as performing a certain function rather than working a certain muscle group. For instance, deadlifts are picking something up off the ground and shoulder presses are putting a weight overhead. So when you are planning your exercises, trying to mix them up. I wouldn't be afraid of doing ME movements and then very light/gymnastic movements of the same kind. Hope that helped!
I appreciate the comments. Thanks. But both the DLs and the Cleans (in the metcon) were both heavy (for me, at least); not light gymnastic work. Maybe I'm just nervous when I go heavy with DLs because of all the injury posts and my past predilection towards overtraining.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:21 AM   #129
Jeff Martin
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Kempie asked Bingo and I to help out here for the next couple of days. He has done a great job answering questions, hope we don't embarrass or make more work for him.

Couple things to keep in mind. Regarding the program and how it was structured. This was specifically developed to focus on weaknesses in our box. Many of us had very strong press numbers. Using Rips Basic Strength Standards, many of us were already pressing weights that put us in the advanced column or between the advanced and elite. On the other hand our deadlifts and squats numbers tended to be somewhere between novice and intermediate. We wanted to bring that up, so there was a heavy emphasis on those lifts. Most of us now have squats that match our presses, somewhere in the advanced column moving towards elite.

Jon,
1. Yes. It was intentional. We really didn't care about logging a one rep max on the Front squat and were more concerned about being rested and ready to start another round.
2. The high rep back squats and deadlifts tended to make us sore, very sore. Sometimes it lasted a couple of days. It didn't inhibit the 3 and 5 rep maxes as long as we warmed up enough. It did affect the 1 rep maxes so we took them out before week 6.
3. Choose between a 3 rep scheme or 5 rep scheme.
4. Yes
5. No it was intentional given our goals.
6. For the people I was supervising we ended the fifth week with sets of three. Week six was the only time we tested 1 rep maxes and we felt if someone had emphasized sets of five throughout the previous five weeks it would behoove them to finish up with sets of 3 as a prep for the one rep max. On the other side, in week one we were fairly well rested having dropped the high rep sets in week five and it was a good time to push up the x 3 numbers.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:07 AM   #130
Anthony Dubis
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Smith View Post
I appreciate the comments. Thanks. But both the DLs and the Cleans (in the metcon) were both heavy (for me, at least); not light gymnastic work. Maybe I'm just nervous when I go heavy with DLs because of all the injury posts and my past predilection towards overtraining.
You definitely have to watch your form, especially when you're tired. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though. I don't think you can do too much damage with a 3x3 and <15 minute metcon in one day...Now if you did this same thing 3 days in a row you may start to subtract from the benefits, but I'm sure you aren't doing that.
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