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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 05-30-2011, 05:57 AM   #91
Donald Lee
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by John A. Smith View Post
I'd be interested in hearing what Ed Coan, Benedikt Magnússon, Konstantin Konstantinovs, and Andy Bolton have to say about that and what their Deadlift routines look like.

Also, what about Kroc Rows?
I know Andy Bolton does Power Cleans. You can see his training over at his website.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:42 AM   #92
Dan Graziano
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

Ed Coan said he did them like once but never incorporated them into his programming. He did say that he would do power shrugs, which would help on explosion and extension of the hip. That exercise would probably be good to help bring up some lifts.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:47 AM   #93
Geoff Archibald
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

I have pretty rudimentary knowledge of strength training but from what I've read, explosive movements are incredibly effective in increasing strength. My understanding is that fast twitch muscle is most effective for transferring maximum force and slow twitch is where endurance is the biggest factor. Genetics largely decide the amount of each but a person can recruit some slow twitch to fast twitch with training. This is done with a combination of max efforts, speed lifts and plyometrics.

I have read references to a famous experiment from many years ago involving increasing jump height. The group that made the most significant gains used a routine that had strength work followed by plyometric work with a short rest between. An example I read was doing something like 5X5 back squats at sub max but heavy followed by body weight jumping squats.

I also remember watching a video with Louie Simmons where he was emphasizing the importance of speed days where they move lighter weights as fast as possible. The focus of the talk was about increasing 1RM without ever doing a single max lift.

Anyway, I think that cleans are a good explosive movement that can be used in gaining strength for a large number of movements and not just the Olympic lifts. If someone can't do or wants to avoid cleans, they should find other explosive movements to supplement with.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:56 AM   #94
Dan Graziano
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Geoff Archibald View Post
I have pretty rudimentary knowledge of strength training but from what I've read, explosive movements are incredibly effective in increasing strength. My understanding is that fast twitch muscle is most effective for transferring maximum force and slow twitch is where endurance is the biggest factor. Genetics largely decide the amount of each but a person can recruit some slow twitch to fast twitch with training. This is done with a combination of max efforts, speed lifts and plyometrics.

I have read references to a famous experiment from many years ago involving increasing jump height. The group that made the most significant gains used a routine that had strength work followed by plyometric work with a short rest between. An example I read was doing something like 5X5 back squats at sub max but heavy followed by body weight jumping squats.

I also remember watching a video with Louie Simmons where he was emphasizing the importance of speed days where they move lighter weights as fast as possible. The focus of the talk was about increasing 1RM without ever doing a single max lift.

Anyway, I think that cleans are a good explosive movement that can be used in gaining strength for a large number of movements and not just the Olympic lifts. If someone can't do or wants to avoid cleans, they should find other explosive movements to supplement with.
Great points and I am familiar with the Louie Simmons video you are talking about. The only thing I would say is that although someones genetics may make them better at 'bodybuilding' type exercises rather than 'o-lifts' is true to a certain extent but anybody can do both and with quality if they want to learn and put in the time.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:58 AM   #95
Ryan Dell Whitley
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Geoff Archibald View Post
I have pretty rudimentary knowledge of strength training but from what I've read, explosive movements are incredibly effective in increasing strength.
I think you mean that they are effective at increasing power.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:16 AM   #96
Michael E Tancini
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

I think they are one of the best exercises you can do. I dont understand why people would not do them.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:22 AM   #97
Michael Dowling
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

i think people are missing some of the critical points here. i agree power cleans are beneficial if someone is able to do them at heavier weights for low reps (a true 3 RM or true 5 RM). however i have not seen one person doing this in my gym ever (one guy i saw cleaning about 205 once). i see 135 lb power cleans for 5 reps by grown men, women power cleaning 65 lbs in a WOD etc... these IMO are a complete waste of time other than working on form (and the PC's in a WOD the form is atrocious anyway).

there are many reasons why someone can't do power cleans at heavier weights, for me power cleaning 160 for reps or maxing at 190 simply hurts and not a hurt you ignore and work through a hurt that tells you you're going to do serious damage to your shoulders if you continue, mobility issues, possibly previous injuries etc... the reasoning is immaterial to the subject, which is "are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters" since the majority of lifters fuss around with weights that will do basically nothing to benefit power, explosiveness etc... i would say that they are useless for most lifters who can't really get to a challenging 5 RM due to issues that limit the movement for them.
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:01 AM   #98
Chris Walls
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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... i would say that they are useless for most lifters who can't really get to a challenging 5 RM due to issues that limit the movement for them.
So are you saying if you have mobility issues that prevent you from doing the lift you should just not do the lift? Wouldn't you be better off fixing those issues so you can do the lift? (and I would assume many other things would improve as well...)
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:54 AM   #99
John A. Smith
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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I know Andy Bolton does Power Cleans. You can see his training over at his website.
There are not any videos on Andy Bolton's website of him doing power cleans. http://www.andyboltonstrength.org/videos/ (WFS)
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Originally Posted by Dan Graziano View Post
Ed Coan said he did them like once but never incorporated them into his programming. He did say that he would do power shrugs, which would help on explosion and extension of the hip. That exercise would probably be good to help bring up some lifts.
Could you provide a verifiable source? The deadlift routine Ed Coan created for Mark Phillipi includes power shrugs. http://www.powerpage.net/coanphildead.html (WFS)

The point of my previous post was that power cleans are a great exercise. They are one of my favorite exercises. However they are not necessary for *everyone* to develop a strong deadlift. Anyone who implies that is making a fallacious argument.

I've seen many powerlifting templates/programs and the majority of them do not include doing power cleans as a requirement for the program to be effective. The Seated DB Power Clean that Westside lifters do is a different exercise.
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:47 AM   #100
Veronica Carpenter
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Michael Dowling View Post
i think people are missing some of the critical points here. i agree power cleans are beneficial if someone is able to do them at heavier weights for low reps (a true 3 RM or true 5 RM). however i have not seen one person doing this in my gym ever (one guy i saw cleaning about 205 once). i see 135 lb power cleans for 5 reps by grown men, women power cleaning 65 lbs in a WOD etc... these IMO are a complete waste of time other than working on form (and the PC's in a WOD the form is atrocious anyway).

there are many reasons why someone can't do power cleans at heavier weights, for me power cleaning 160 for reps or maxing at 190 simply hurts and not a hurt you ignore and work through a hurt that tells you you're going to do serious damage to your shoulders if you continue, mobility issues, possibly previous injuries etc... the reasoning is immaterial to the subject, which is "[u]are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters[/U]"Define "Lifters" If you mean your average Joe trying training for GPP they are still a full body compound exercise that get the heart rate up even at lighter weights, especially if you're repping them out (which I'm totally fond of, but that's another topic.) since the majority of lifters fuss around with weights that will do basically nothing to benefit power, explosiveness etc... i would say that they are useless for most lifters who can't really get to a challenging 5 RM due to issues that limit the movement for them.

If you are a collegiate athlete (and I'll guess pro athletes as well) your strength program will most likely include power cleans for training explosive power.
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Last edited by Veronica Carpenter : 06-01-2011 at 09:49 AM.
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