Snatches

[Steve Reggio]

I just saw this from a strength coach named Mike Boyle, he talks about mistakes in training and has this to say about snatches:

Mistake #13: Starting to teach snatches with a snatch grip

When I realized that snatches would be a great lift for my athletes I began to implement them into my programs. Within a week some athletes complained of shoulder pain. In two weeks, so many complained that I took snatches out of the program. It wasn't until I revisited the snatch with a clean grip that I truly began to see the benefits.

Just remember, the only reason Olympic lifters use a wide snatch grip is so that they can reduce the distance the bar travels and as a result lift more weight. Close-grip snatches markedly decrease the external rotation component and also increase the distance traveled. The result is a better lift, but less weight.
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I am new to Olympic lifts but now love doing them, what are the thoughts on this from more experienced folks.

[Zac Stutts]

but wouldnt that also contribute to earlier arm flexion thus taking the whole shrug/explosion out of the entire picture? thus making the lift something totally different than what it is meant to be in the first place?

if i had atheltes complaining of shoulder pain id increase flexibility training, not change around a lift because changing a snatch imo is just dumb

[Brandon Oto]

Is it even possible to do full squat snatches with a clean grip? I can't overhead squat from that position -- the flexibility limitation makes it impossible.

[Veronica Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Brandon Oto

Is it even possible to do full squat snatches with a clean grip? I can't overhead squat from that position -- the flexibility limitation makes it impossible.

It's possible, but the tracjectory of the bar during the pulls will be way out front - not exactly the most effiecient way to snatch. AND, yes it requires a whole lot more shoulder flexibility.

Adjusting the grip a bit narrower on the snatch will help with excessive torque on the wrist. I don't see the need or benefit of using a clean grip.

[Brian Degenaro]

I don't see a point in doing clean grip snatches either, they just seem like a pain in the ***. Clean grip OHS, that has more function, especially if you're a squat jerker, but even if you're not, your regular OHS with a snatch grip will feel sooooo much easier.

[Lincoln Brigham]

I dunno. If you want to take 3 years to learn how to snatch, I think Boyle is on to something. My guess is that Boyle does not teach the overhead squat.

[Guest2]

Clean-grip snatches are a decent exercise, but not as a progression to or substitute for snatching. That's just a demonstration of poor coaching and improper progression.

And how would narrowing the grip reduce the external rotation? The start and end points are the same in those terms, and with a narrower grip, the force on the structures involved would be greater, not less. And a narrower grip requires greater shoulder flexibility in the overhead position, so how would that reduce shoulder pain? My guess is that Boyle's lifters are not forced to bring their shoulder and T-spine flexibility up to par, nor are they taught a sound overhead position. And I can confidently say based on the videos I've seen they're not taught anything resembling sound technique. So drawing such conclusions about exercises based on that evidence is ridiculous.

[Jason M Struck]

he doesn't discuss the overhead in any of his literature or lectures

he also states that he advocates the front squat to parrallel instead of the back squat.

I think that he predominantly uses the DB high hang snatch, so there may be some semantics confusion there too.

[Leonid Soubbotine]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3AFHZ20s2Ho WFS
"Examples of female athletes performing a very technical lift - the hang clean" by Mike Boyle's athletes.

As far as his opinion on reasons for shoulder pain there's an old Russian quote:

"Don't blame the mirror for the ugliness of your own face".

[Peter Terry Haas]

I teach people the squat snatch by starting w/ the OHS. The ones who complain about shoulder pain usually have poor flexibility, which we work on w/ dislocates, etc. I have them use a wider (not narrower) grip until their flexibility improves.

I've seen clean-grip power snatches used w/ light weight purely as part of a warmup for heavy power cleans. The form isn't the greatest b/c you have to swing it a little away from the body, but it starts grooving in that hip extension. If you're not interested in doing the full squat version of these lifts then that's not a bad idea. If your goal is to teach them the squat version of anything, then work on flexibility.

Are you teaching your athletes the squat versions of the clean/snatch, or just the power versions?