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Old 01-08-2012, 08:55 PM   #1
Levi Goins
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Squat Clean advice

Need some advice on the squat clean. Bar has 215# on it, went for four, video shows the second rep. I feel like I'm not getting under the bar quick enough.. any suggestions welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xREUlKiqssk
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:59 PM   #2
Keith Miller
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Re: Squat Clean advice

You're getting under the bar fine, but what you're NOT doing is maintaining a flat back off the floor. You are jerking the weight off the floor. Watch as soon as the bar breaks off the floor, you're back rounds and the bar never get back into your hips, you go forward to catch it.

Slow down your first pull and use your legs/hips to "push the floor away from you". Remember, the first pull is NOT a deadlift, and don't let people tell you otherwise!!
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:51 PM   #3
Levi Goins
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Thanks Keith, I see the back rounding, its really terrible. Would having the bar closer to my shins and my chest more upright help with exploding from the floor?
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:15 AM   #4
Keith Miller
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Ideally, you should NOT explode from the floor. The first pull should be controlled. Doesn't have to be slow, per se, but should be controlled.

And the bar should line up over the base of your toes. For some with good ankle flexibility, the bar will touch your shins in this position, others will not.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:35 AM   #5
Jason Kurfurst
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Couple of things, but most noticeable is that your legs extend way to fast and your upper body doesn't move at the same speed. Your shoulders and hips should move together.....not in two movements.
The first pull from the floor (deadlift) is a controlled movement that can't be too fast otherwise what happens is what happened in your lift... your legs extend first and you look like your doing a stiff legged deadlift. Keep your head up, chest high and shoulders back. Once the bar is just over the knees then you can fully explode.
Think about it as a jump. How many people jump from a deep squat position to gain the greatest height. Non, they jump from a 3/4 squat position. So contol the first pull to your knees, let the shoulders and hips raise together and then explode in the 'second pull'.
Second point is your feet, you don't move then. Try to get just a little jump in. You get onto your toes but you don't shift your feet. When you catch the bar, you should shift your feet into a squatting stance allowing you to squat more easily and have more power coming up and out of the front squat.
Last point is your last pulling motion before you catch the bar. Try doing more of a shrug as you pull the bar. You'd be surprised how much more pull you get when you shrug your shoulders.....actually a good exercise to perform are explosive jump shrugs......start in a hang position but just perform an explosive jump, but don't bend your arms, just shrug your shoulders.
You definitely have awesome strength, it's just that your first pull off the floor is way too fast......take a look at yourself on video again and pause it and you'll notice your legs fully extended even before the weights have left the floor. I'm sure if you take care of this first pull, and add in the shift of feet (or slight jump) and add the shrug, your power cleans will skyrocket.
Good luck
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:46 AM   #6
Jason Kurfurst
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Btw, I'm curious about Keith millers comment to you about the first pull not being a deadlift. Then what is it?
Of course it's a deadlift. Pure and simple. It's a strength movement, nothing powerful about it. It can be done slow or fast.....that's why body builders do them. Power is Explosive movement, deadlifts arent really explosive are they!
It's when the bar crosses the knees that it becomes explosive (like a jump).
I don't want to get into a slanging match here, but merely questioning the reasoning why Keith claims it's not a deadlift. What else could it be?

Last edited by Jason Kurfurst : 01-20-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:59 AM   #7
Keith Miller
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Kurfurst View Post
Btw, I'm curious about Keith millers comment to you about the first pull not being a deadlift. Then what is it?
Of course it's a deadlift. Pure and simple. It's a strength movement, nothing powerful about it. It can be done slow or fast.....that's why body builders do them. Power is Explosive movement, deadlifts arent really explosive are they!
It's when the bar crosses the knees that it becomes explosive (like a jump).
I don't want to get into a slanging match here, but merely questioning the reasoning why Keith claims it's not a deadlift. What else could it be?
I claim it's not a deadlift due to positioning. In a deadlift, you traditionally start with a higher hip set position and tend to pull more with the back rather than the legs.

I call the first pull a "clean pull" because you start with a lower hip position and push with the legs. I've had many issues with coaching people who think the first pull is a deadlift, and once I give the cue to push with the legs, they get it. Call it semantics, but most coaches in the weightlifting world think the same thing.

Hope this helps explain my reasoning a little better. In the end, call it what you will, but know that there are fundamental differences between a conventional deadlift and the first pull of a clean.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:12 AM   #8
Jeremy Galo
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Miller View Post
I claim it's not a deadlift due to positioning. In a deadlift, you traditionally start with a higher hip set position and tend to pull more with the back rather than the legs.

I call the first pull a "clean pull" because you start with a lower hip position and push with the legs. I've had many issues with coaching people who think the first pull is a deadlift, and once I give the cue to push with the legs, they get it. Call it semantics, but most coaches in the weightlifting world think the same thing.

Hope this helps explain my reasoning a little better. In the end, call it what you will, but know that there are fundamental differences between a conventional deadlift and the first pull of a clean.
^^^ This

In the weightlifting world, doing traditional deadlifts is relatively rare. In fact we even call them Snatch Deadlifts or Clean Deadlifts to differentiate between a traditional deadlift.

When people "deadlift" they're usually thinking about lifting as much weight as possible, as efficiently as possible, from the ground to extension. In the "first pull" or "clean/snatch deadlift" the object is not to lift as much weight off the ground... the objective is to get your body positioned for the "second pull" which is where all the speed and power comes from.

So no... it's not a deadlift.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:19 PM   #9
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Galo View Post
When people "deadlift" they're usually thinking about lifting as much weight as possible, as efficiently as possible, from the ground to extension. In the "first pull" or "clean/snatch deadlift" the object is not to lift as much weight off the ground... the objective is to get your body positioned for the "second pull" which is where all the speed and power comes from.

So no... it's not a deadlift.
What Jeremy said.

Also, for cleans the limiting factor is the squat, not the deadlift. For pretty much anyone, their max clean is going to be relatively light compared to their max deadlift. So it doesn't make sense to use "deadlift" form, aimed at lifting the maximum possible weight. You need "clean" form, aimed at getting the bar in position for the second pull.

To the OP, you might try cleaning from blocks, set so the bar is somewhere between your knee and mid-thigh. That will help you figure out where you need to end up at the top of the clean pull (not deadlift).

Katherine
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:41 PM   #10
Levi Goins
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Re: Squat Clean advice

Thanks for all the advice, just revisited the thread. I've been working on the first pull quite a bit, and trying to work on the back rounding. Last weekend, on my second wod of the day I cleaned 235 lbs which was a 10lb PR. I've slowed down my first pull a ton and I'm getting under the bar at a lower position which seems to be working.

I will post a new vid soon.
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