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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 05-13-2009, 03:00 PM   #21
Sean Dunston
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

Mike-
See what your commanding officer thinks of this... 2 of our local AF Bases (Bolling and Andrews) have adopted CrossFit:

both links wfs-

http://www.dcmilitary.com/stories/10...or_28032.shtml
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123131713

That said...
If I were trying to show the efficacy of CF, I would follow CF as Rx'd (or as close as possible) from the main page with a 3 on, 1 off program - not a hodge podge of CrossFit-like exercises 2x per week. And as the others have noted, diet is going to be a big part of "fitness" under the CrossFit method.

Anything less and it really isn't CrossFit and should not be judged as such.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:25 PM   #22
David Meverden
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

Lets remember that everyone compromises somewhere in their training, and people should not feel they have to go 3 on 1 off to be CrossFitters or say they are doing CrossFit.

Do we agree that 2 days a week is lousy for real significant improvement? Sure. And that not very motivated trainees suck? Sure. But lets keep a constructive attitude and help Mike do the damn best 2 or 3 days a week of training he can, not just remind him of his limitations and then give up.

In that spirit I will give a bump to Steve Rakow's very constructive advice (pared down some) of:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rakow View Post
1. Pullups are an absolute must and perhaps you just forgot to list them.

3. . . . You determine what gets scaled, not the participant.

4. . . . I suggest staying away from making up your WODs . . . floorwipers are ok for warmups, but not so much for WODs. Also, broncos, flutterkicks, low-crawls? 100 burpees/1 mile run? Where's the intensity? . . . Better might be 5 rounds of 20 burpees/400m run . . . Keeps the intensity higher. . . Instead of 5 rds of 10 burpees, 10 thrusters, 30m lunges, try as many rounds as possible in 20 mins of 5 burpees, 10 situps, 15 PVC overhead squats, or 3 rounds of 400m run with (3 rds of 5 pullups, 10 pushups, 15 squats). Try mixing up your time priority and task priority WODs to keep them interested and the intensity up. A chipper every once-in-a-while is okay, but keep things simple if you can (couplets, triplets).

5. Given that most of these folks are probably deconditioned, I would definitely have short, but intense runs at each session coupled with a WOD.

6. Turn portions of the PT test into buy-ins and cash outs (before and after the WODs). For example, after the warm up, do as many pushups in 2 mins, or as many situps in 2 mins. Make these buy-ins/cash-outs longer in duration, so that the test seems easy. Also, run the entire PT test as one event for a WOD: 800m Run, 50 pushups, 800m run, 50 situps, 800m run OR 3 rounds of 800m run, 50 pushups, 50 situps. This is great for confidence building.

Focus on the basics, nine basic movements, bodyweight exercises (and running/sprints are monostructural, not bodyweight), and running 400s and 800s for time. If you can find time to get them into the gym and do some power lifting or Oly lifts, it would help.
And then I'll put out a call for what the community thinks could be done to up the motivation of these guys? As suggested earlier, is there any way you could recognize or highlight great performances or improvements?

Are scores posted? Would posted scores among unmotivated trainees hurt or help, do you guys think?
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:36 PM   #23
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wright View Post
I had very much bought into the idea espoused in our community that our methods will increase GPP better than any other program. In fact, this idea has been stated that exact way by Coach Glassman and many others, IE Greg A's video "trainning 2 miles to run a 100". So my natural assumption was that a 6 week CF based program could make a person a better runner by doing OH squats, thrusters, etc. There is a belief in our community that the program itself (structure/movements) is the deciding factor, for instance when Coach says "The magic is in the movements". If this is true, then we should be able to apply that program to a test subject and get similar results.
If the goal is to test the effectiveness of Crossfit, then you need to use true Crossfit programming. It's not *just* the movements, it's how they're combined. There are a lot of subtleties that may not be immediately obvious. 4x400m sprints is NOT the same workout as "run one mile." Tabata situps, 20sec on 10 sec off for 4 minutes, is NOT the same as "max situps in 4 minutes."

If the goal is to improve GPP, then you also need a test that actually measures GPP. The heavy weighting of the run portion of the PT makes it primarily a test of running ability. Even Coach Glassman doesn't claim that Crossfit beats specialist preparation *in that specialty.*

Katherine
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:51 PM   #24
Tirzah Harper
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

If you're training for specific performance in limited time, concentrate on what will directly impact that specific performance: pushups, situps, sprints, etc.

If you can tap into whatever motivated your crew to join an institution that requires physical fitness in the first place, do so. Reach for whatever in them might possibly be motivated to working harder. If it's "ace the fitness test so I don't wash out," then by golly we will ace that test.

Have you talked with them at all about why they're there in the first place and how they might find motivation? Depending on your students, your meager time might be as well spent in motivation and they'll do their own training at another time...
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:52 PM   #25
Mike Wright
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Lets remember that everyone compromises somewhere in their training, and people should not feel they have to go 3 on 1 off to be CrossFitters or say they are doing CrossFit.

Do we agree that 2 days a week is lousy for real significant improvement? Sure. And that not very motivated trainees suck? Sure. But lets keep a constructive attitude and help Mike do the damn best 2 or 3 days a week of training he can, not just remind him of his limitations and then give up.

In that spirit I will give a bump to Steve Rakow's very constructive advice (pared down some) of:




And then I'll put out a call for what the community thinks could be done to up the motivation of these guys? As suggested earlier, is there any way you could recognize or highlight great performances or improvements?

Are scores posted? Would posted scores among unmotivated trainees hurt or help, do you guys think?
Thanx Dave for the feedback. Here is what we do for intensity and motivation:

-Students are put into teams, and the teams compete against each other troughout the course
-Team scores are posted each PT day for all too see, its a running competition with the winning team announced / rewarded at the end of the course
-We time all WODs, individual times are averaged for a team total each session
-Inevitably, there are weak links on every team so peer pressure plays a factor in the WODs as well

Coach says that there are 2 ways to raise intensity: increase load or decrease time. The above factors work towards time, I figure by mandating bar weights I can ratchet up the intensity as well.

Last edited by Mike Wright : 05-13-2009 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:01 PM   #26
Mike Wright
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
If the goal is to test the effectiveness of Crossfit, then you need to use true Crossfit programming. It's not *just* the movements, it's how they're combined. There are a lot of subtleties that may not be immediately obvious. 4x400m sprints is NOT the same workout as "run one mile." Tabata situps, 20sec on 10 sec off for 4 minutes, is NOT the same as "max situps in 4 minutes."

If the goal is to improve GPP, then you also need a test that actually measures GPP. The heavy weighting of the run portion of the PT makes it primarily a test of running ability. Even Coach Glassman doesn't claim that Crossfit beats specialist preparation *in that specialty.*

Katherine
TRUE, since I attended my Level 1 cert, my programming is much improved. It went from jumbles of crazy crap thrown together to smarter more elegant couplets and triplets.

Although I would disagree with the idea of "true CF programming". I think the SOCAL qualifier WOD and the upcoming Games format both attest to that. Coach has said of the games, "No CrossFitter has trained for these WODs". Based on this, the "unknown and unknoweable" scenario may be the truer test of the CF program.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:10 PM   #27
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wright View Post
-We time all WODs, individual times are averaged for a team total each session
-Inevitably, there are weak links on every team so peer pressure plays a factor in the WODs as well
Depending on the WOD, you might use the total of all times: that pushes the fast people to go hard to make up for the slower people, and encourages the slower people to go hard so they don't let their teammates down.

Katherine
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:51 PM   #28
Noah Martin
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

Interesting thread.

Mike, you can multiquote instead of having multiple subsequent replies
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:08 PM   #29
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

How about tabata pushups, tabata situps, etc.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:10 PM   #30
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: CrossFit doesnt work...

I don't know there fitness levels though so they might not be able to go for a full 8 rounds.
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