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Old 08-17-2004, 09:13 PM   #1
Kevin Roddy
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(NOTE: I am a Christian, and thus, this post is going to contain rambling of a religious nature. If this for whatever reason displeases you, don't read it. :-) )


--

I've been thinking lately about the implications of the Paleo diet. Pretty much everyone here bases their diet off of what we believe was eaten by man hundreds of thousands of years ago.

However, the more I read, the more I seem to be leaning towards Creationism rather than Evolutionism as the cornerstone idea of human development, the more that the whole foundation of the Paleo diet kind of falls flat on it's face.

Now that's not to say that even if I were to believe Creationism rather than Evolutionism, I would consider Cordain's diet a bad one - just one with a whole lot less supporting evidence. (I would just have to call it the "hunter gatherer diet" or something instead, LOL).

I'd like to hear your own personal views on evolution and the subsequent topics therein. This is not meant to give rise to any anger or such, but it's a lot easier for me to talk about this stuff rather than ponder it all on my own. ;D

-Kevin
 
Old 08-18-2004, 04:54 AM   #2
Donald Woodson
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Kevin, I ponder this virtually all the time.
I was raised as a Christian. My Grandfather on my mom's side was a Lutheran minister. We went to church on every Sunday.
But after I grew up and started noticing things, I found myself with just more questions.
Are Christians the only society that will gain acceptance in heaven? Are all of the past and present non Christian societies condemned forever to hell?
What about all of the fossils I keep finding in the woods? According to my Grandfather, those animals never existed; yet I see them laying around everywhere, (I live on some bluffs along the Mississippi that were allegedly formed by a glacier millions of years ago). A local college, also on those bluffs, has a complete Wooly Mammoth skeleton on their property, yet it never existed? I found what was determined by an archeologist to be a Clovis spear point, allegedly over 10,000 years old. Am I to believe that the guy that lost it 10,000 some odd years ago was condemned to hell, just because he never heard the word of Christ? Am I to believe that of the billions and billions of different folks that have tread this planet, and never heard the word of Christ, that only us Christians can walk through the pearly gates?
I guess I won't really know until I'm dead.
 
Old 08-18-2004, 06:10 AM   #3
Barry Cooper
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Whoah!! I think you all are overcomplicating it. With the advent of the scientific method, all you have do is experiment. Whatever diet produces the best results, you stick with. You don't need a macroscopic backdrop, with accompanying drama and Wagnerian Valkyrie.

With respect to scientific theory, you cannot prove a theory to be true, you can merely demonstrate that it best explains the existing data. Evolution is a good theory, but it really does have a difficult time reconciling INCREASING complexity, as evidenced by apparent increases in intelligence and capabilities (such as in man) with fundamental physical principles such as entropy. If everything is trending towards greater disorganization, you almost need to hypothesize a countervailing principle of negentropy, which could be seen as God. That is the traditional argument of Christians who don't deny the fossil record.

From an epistemological point of view, we can't be certain we weren't created out of the blue five minutes ago with complete memories. Bottom line: you give me a belief, and I can build you a solid logical superstructure.

My favorite book of the Bible is Ecclesiastes: "Eat, drink, and take joy in your work."
 
Old 08-18-2004, 07:23 AM   #4
Donald Woodson
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WOW Barry! Ya just blew my mind. I am but a simple dude, an aircraft inspector by trade and gearhead by vocation. My thoughts are strictly binary in nature; black/white, wrong/right, on/off, ying/yang, it either works or it don't, cause and effect. The only time I was ever able to comprehend quantum theory or algorythms etc, I was totally stoned, but my beliefs in God, man's law, and company policy prevent me from any further experimentation along those lines.
And wasn't taking from the tree of knowledge the beginning of mans' "disorganization"? ie, The more we know, the less we understand, so the more fubar the world gets?
As far as food and the paleo diet is concerned, it has been asserted that the cultivation and consumption of maize (pure carbohydrate), was the downfall of some ancient, native american civilizations, long before the europeans showed up here.
 
Old 08-18-2004, 07:40 AM   #5
Roy Taylor
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Im glad this post came up.

I, a Christian, and most others KNOW that dinosaurs existed. The only argument is that evolutionists believe they existed millions of years ago. The Bible teaches us that the Earth has been around for around 10,000 years, which is what I believe.

Kevin, try www.drdino.com I watched a video from this ministry with evidence that [proves] evolution was completely made up. Some may argue "wasn't the Bible made up?" Well, if they study scriptures, particularly prophecies foretold about getting closer to the Second Coming, and then turn on the news and/or recount what has happened in the past few years(terrorism, storms, war, etc.) they will notice that some have been fulfilled. Coincidence? Absolutely not. These books were written over 1000 years ago. There are also prophecies fulfilled in the new testament, foretold in the old testament. As far as entering the Kingdom of Heaven, there is only one way and that is to know ********** as Lord and savior. If a preacher preached it to a murderer, and did not believe it himself, but the murderer DID believe it, the murderer would certainly enter the pearly gates, while the precher gets left behind.

I remember that when the Ten Commandements were removed from Public view in the Alabama Supreme Court, Mars moved closer to Earth than it has ever been. Both in the same day. PRICELESS!

I dont think one should eat paleo foods only. After trial and error, I realize that too much of anything is bad. Even vegetables, and especially fruits. An example can be losing friends due to constant farting, plus spending twice as much on groceries. Moderation is ultimately the key, IMHO. Anything from salads, to meat, to ice cream.




Cheers

Roy
 
Old 08-18-2004, 10:17 AM   #6
John de la Garza
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Just because that is what early man may have eaten doesn't make it the best thing to eat...they may of had poor health.

You should look at the body from a bio-chemical point and see what we are suited to digest and how to digest it...in my opionion


 
Old 08-18-2004, 10:25 AM   #7
Donald Woodson
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That is a VERY interesting site Roy. Thanks! I'll have to explore that one at home though.
I have always questioned the validity of carbon dating.
As far as the dinosaurs go, does DrDino assert that man and dinosaurs coexisted? Maybe they were wiped out by the great flood? Maybe those newly discovered ancient ruins found in Peru belonged to a people that were wiped out in the flood?
All I do know is I have a lot of questions and no answers, and I certainly don't have any arguments.
My biggest question though is, why would God condemn people who've never had the opportunity to hear Jesus' word?
I dunno, maybe I shouldn't even ask why. Maybe I should just, "Eat, drink, and take joy in my work".
I do have my faith though. I can't walk through the woods, or dive a reef and not be amazed about nature's perfect design and organization. I just "know" that this isn't some accident caused by two rocks randomly colliding in space. Then I see what we as humans have done to that perfect organization in just the last 200 years. Things are happening so rapidly in our lifetimes, I too can't help but wonder if the apocolyptic visions are true.
Then I watch the news and see all of the subhuman atrocities happening everyday, the loose morals of the people, the total lack of ethics in any government, I hang my head and pray, "I'm ready now, Lord".
 
Old 08-18-2004, 12:04 PM   #8
Paul M
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Without getting into the question of religion, I would like to point out that there really is no conflict between the 2nd law of thermodynamics (the law of increasing entropy) and life/evolution. I'll just point out a couple of the relevent ideas, without going into too much detail:

1) Entropy is a measure of the number of microscopic configurations of a system lead to the same macroscopic state. While generally, a more "disordered" system has a higher entropy (number of possible configurations,) this isn't always the case. And counting the number of configurations of a living thing is FAR from trivial!

2) The 2nd law of thermodynamics applies to any closed system, while the earth is an open system which exchanges matter and energy with the rest of the universe. This also applies to any living thing on earth, which is exchanging matter and energy with the rest of the world. So, even if entropy is decreasing locally, it will be increasing globally. This, for example, is why you can make a refigerator: you can lower the entropy inside your fridge (its entropy goes down as it gets colder) but the increase the entropy of your kitchen because of the amount of heat given off by your refigerator more than compensates!

Definitely an incomplete discussion, but as a physicist who studies nonequilibrium thermodynamics, I couldn't resist!

By the way, I think Barry's right on about the diet stuff: follow the diet that gives you the greatest health and athletic performance. If you do need a backdrop for explaining the diet, as a Christian you may be happier with one of the "Biblical Diets" that exist.

-Paul
 
Old 08-18-2004, 12:56 PM   #9
Kevin Roddy
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Wow! Great responses! This is a very touchy topic, and I'm glad it was handled well.

BTW, this is the article I read that spurred this post:

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=bodybuilder&Number= 613394&Forum=bodybuilder&Words=Word%20of%20God&Mat ch=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage= 0&Limit=25&Old=3months&Main=613394&Search=true#Pos t613394

Please note that this is a VERY VERY LONG article. It's not a 5-minute read, that's for sure.

Roy - Thank you for this post especially, and the website. Very enlightening.
 
Old 08-18-2004, 01:00 PM   #10
Kevin Roddy
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Also, as an aside, I don't personally like following a "diet" as much as just plain eating well. Sometimes you need to pick and choose different stuff from different diets to find what's right for you. After all, it's just food. :wink:


-Kevin
 
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