CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Nutrition
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-12-2010, 07:34 AM   #131
Jeffrey White
Member Jeffrey White is offline
 
Jeffrey White's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Edwardsville  IL
Posts: 161
Re: Vegan Paleo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Plant based diets that include whole grains are associated with a significantly reduced risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes and numerous other diseases so any fear of anti-nutrients is clearly unfounded.
Dude, you are just plain funny.


  Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2010, 08:01 AM   #132
David Meverden
Member David Meverden is offline
 
David Meverden's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Charleston  SC
Posts: 2,802
Re: Vegan Paleo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Plant based diets that include whole grains are associated with a significantly reduced risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes and numerous other diseases so any fear of anti-nutrients is clearly unfounded. [/url] (wfs)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey White View Post
Dude, you are just plain funny.


I think what Jeffrey is trying to say via his laughing guy emoticon is that the studies examined in your link merely compared people eating whole grains to those eating refined grains. Yes, I have no doubt that someone eating barley bread and steel cut oats will see health benefits over the person eating wonder bread, but that doesn't prove anything in a discussion of a vegetable rich paleo diet vs whole grain diet because that isn't what the studies were comparing.

That is the objection to Darryls latest link that you meant to convey via your ROFL guy, right Jeffrey?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 08:02 AM   #133
Darryl Shaw
Member Darryl Shaw is offline
 
Darryl Shaw's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manchester  England
Posts: 1,925
Re: Vegan Paleo

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
I think what Jeffrey is trying to say via his laughing guy emoticon is that the studies examined in your link merely compared people eating whole grains to those eating refined grains.
That link was intended to counter your assertion that whole grains "may not just be nutrient poor but may even contain anti-nutrients that prevent optimal absorption of nutrients you DO take in" but as you didn't like that paper here's a couple of abstracts for you -

The role of whole grains in disease prevention.

Whole grains and human health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden
Yes, I have no doubt that someone eating barley bread and steel cut oats will see health benefits over the person eating wonder bread, but that doesn't prove anything in a discussion of a vegetable rich paleo diet vs whole grain diet because that isn't what the studies were comparing.
This isn't a discussion about "a vegetable rich paleo diet vs whole grain diet", it's a discussion about whether or not a vegan can do CrossFit. Also as I'm sure you noted I stated in my previous post that "getting all your carbs from grains would be as stupid as getting all your protein from meat as we need a varied diet if we're going to ensure that all essential nutrients needed for optimal health and physical performance are consumed" so I'm not sure why you're trying to make this into an either/or thing. Besides paleo man ate a vegetable rich diet that included whole grains so any further debate of this somewhat artificial distinction seems a little pointless.

*All links wfs*
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 08:59 AM   #134
Jeffrey White
Member Jeffrey White is offline
 
Jeffrey White's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Edwardsville  IL
Posts: 161
Re: Vegan Paleo

If the question is simply" can a vegan do crossfit" the answer yes. Mike Mahler, although not doing crossfit, is a clear example of someone who can be absolute beast without meat.

But...Mahler doesn't eat grains either.

To paraphrase Brooks Kubic from Dinsosaur Training "look at what all the successful people do and then do what they all have in common".

Well, nearly every successful vegan athlete I know of excludes the most common allergenic foods from their diets...so no wheat, corn, soy or dairy.

There simply isn't any reason to eat to eat that stuff. All the supposed health benefits that daryl keep claiming can easily and more EFFICIENTLY be meet by other means.

If you just wanted to nitpick one of the last irrelevant links (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11478475) and the line " Whole-grain foods are valuable sources of nutrients that are lacking in the American diet, including dietary fiber, B vitamins, vitamin E, selenium, zinc, copper, and magnesium. Whole-grain foods also contain phytochemicals, such as phenolic compounds, that together with vitamins and minerals play important roles in disease prevention."

okay...

Oats, whole grain, cooked
1.00 cup
234.00 grams
147.42 calories
Nutrient Amount DV
(%)
Nutrient Density World's Healthiest
Foods Rating

manganese 1.37 mg 68.5 8.4 excellent
selenium 18.95 mcg 27.1 3.3 good
tryptophan 0.08 g 25.0 3.1 good
phosphorus 177.84 mg 17.8 2.2 good
vitamin B1 (thiamin) 0.26 mg 17.3 2.1 good
dietary fiber 3.98 g 15.9 1.9 good
magnesium 56.16 mg 14.0 1.7 good
protein 6.08 g 12.2 1.5 good

So that's whole grains.

Here's spinach:

Spinach, boiled
1.00 cup
180.00 grams
41.40 calories
Nutrient Amount DV
(%) Nutrient
Density World's Healthiest
Foods Rating

vitamin K 888.48 mcg 1110.6 482.9 excellent
vitamin A 18865.80 IU 377.3 164.1 excellent
manganese 1.68 mg 84.0 36.5 excellent
folate 262.80 mcg 65.7 28.6 excellent
magnesium 156.60 mg 39.1 17.0 excellent
iron 6.43 mg 35.7 15.5 excellent
vitamin C 17.64 mg 29.4 12.8 excellent
vitamin B2 (riboflavin) 0.42 mg 24.7 10.7 excellent
calcium 244.80 mg 24.5 10.6 excellent
potassium 838.80 mg 24.0 10.4 excellent
vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) 0.44 mg 22.0 9.6 excellent
tryptophan 0.07 g 21.9 9.5 excellent
vitamin E 3.74 mg 18.7 8.1 excellent
dietary fiber 4.32 g 17.3 7.5 very good
copper 0.31 mg 15.5 6.7 very good
vitamin B1 (thiamin) 0.17 mg 11.3 4.9 very good
protein 5.35 g 10.7 4.7 very good
phosphorus 100.80 mg 10.1 4.4 very good
zinc 1.37 mg 9.1 4.0 very good
omega 3 fatty acids 0.15 g 6.3 2.7 good
vitamin B3 (niacin) 0.88 mg 4.4 1.9 good
selenium 2.70 mcg 3.9 1.7 good


I know that the pasting makes it a little hard to read, but spinach just whooped Whole Grains' butt....even by the criteria from Daryl's link.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 09:25 AM   #135
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: Vegan Paleo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey White View Post
I know that the pasting makes it a little hard to read, but spinach just whooped Whole Grains' butt....even by the criteria from Daryl's link.
Sure. But come back when you've eaten 300 calories worth of spinach.

The supposed disadvantage of whole grains -- their high energy density -- is actually an advantage for people with high calorie and/or high carb requirements. Like athletes who are avoiding meat.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 09:29 AM   #136
Jamie J. Skibicki
Member Jamie J. Skibicki is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh  PA
Posts: 8,841
Re: Vegan Paleo

"Sure. But come back when you've eaten 300 calories worth of spinach. "

Take pictures
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 10:26 AM   #137
Robert Newman
Member Robert Newman is offline
 
Robert Newman's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Antonio  TX
Posts: 269
Re: Vegan Paleo

I was always under the impression the reason for not eating whole grains was that they aren't nearly as nutrient dense as fresh fruits and veggies, so why would you bother eating them? Fresh fruits and veggies are as healthy as it gets (assuming non GM). Grains undergo several degrees of processing to get to your mouth, where nutrition is lost.

I see a lot of argument over what Paleo man ate. I haven't really seen much on whether or not what Paleo man ate was optimal for nutrition. Paleo man obviously could not be eating fruits and veggies year round in cold regions, and the Eskimos make it very apparent that a diet primarily made out of meat is terrible for health. Barry Sears can say high carb low protein/ fat is bad, but that doesnt explain most of eastern Asia's eating habits and longevity on a primarily vegetarian diet.

I can't believe there are people here still afraid of fruit. I haven't seen one study showing fruit makes you fat. Even the dreaded high GI bananas, that according to the Mayo Clinic for Diabetes, will not screw with your insulin or blood sugar, as all fruits and veggies are on the unlimited list. You do not get sugar rushes or crashes from fruit.

Did anyone stop to think maybe Paleo/zone works so well because it is a diet high in raw plant life? Some 3/4 of the calories are from the nuts, seeds, fruits and veggies. Did Barry Sears bother to test any other macro nutrient ratios under the premise of high quality food sources? Did he publish any studies to the scientific community for scrutiny?

Yes, you can CrossFit very well on a vegan diet. Raw, high in fruit, would be optimal for vegans.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 10:54 AM   #138
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: Vegan Paleo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Newman View Post
I was always under the impression the reason for not eating whole grains was that they aren't nearly as nutrient dense as fresh fruits and veggies, so why would you bother eating them?
Because sometimes you just need calories, and they're a pretty good source.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 10:59 AM   #139
Jamie J. Skibicki
Member Jamie J. Skibicki is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh  PA
Posts: 8,841
Re: Vegan Paleo

"I can't believe there are people here still afraid of fruit"

Most people who avoid fruit are trying for exceptionally low BF or are more sensitive to sugar.


"the Eskimos make it very apparent that a diet primarily made out of meat is terrible for health"

WHat?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 11:21 AM   #140
Jeffrey White
Member Jeffrey White is offline
 
Jeffrey White's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Edwardsville  IL
Posts: 161
Re: Vegan Paleo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Because sometimes you just need calories, and they're a pretty good source.

Katherine
I know this is going to sound offensive, but that is just a...naive thing to say.

I would counter that fat offers more calories and more nutrition.

avacado:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/f...-juices/1843/2

coconut:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/n...roducts/3114/2

walnuts:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/n...roducts/3138/2

-compare-

Whole grain bread:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/b...roducts/4846/2


(all links w/f/s)

Why add oatmeal for breakfast when adding an avacdo would add so much more nutrition, calories AND do so without the extra insulin and inflammation?


Okay, I've compared spinach, avacado, coconut and walnuts to two of the most popular "whole grain" options...oats and bread. I think I've shown that you can easily get better nutrition and more calories from the non-grains.

There's been a lot of B.S. in this thread...and I think I'm the first one to actually suggest comparing the nutrient profiles of whole grains to "paleo-esque" foods.


I mean where is the real counter-argument? What is the real reason to eat grains? There isn't any. There isn't one thing from grains you can't get from other sources...you don't even have to try all that hard.


Posting studies or lit reviews that shows whole grains do "this and that" doesn't do anything. It's not the whole grains, it's the nutrients inside...which can be obtained elsewhere. Could it be that the very big and very strong BigAg is funding these studies? Could it be that Washington pushes for whole grain advocation because a huge portion of America is farmland and congressmen from places like Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Indiana, etc...like their jobs and don't want to p!$$ off people back home?

Why is corn being used for everything from sugar to fuel? Do you really think its a miracle plant or because we have so freaking much of it and too many people growing it?

Last edited by Jeffrey White : 06-14-2010 at 11:26 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paleo Man vs. Vegan adam adkins Stuff and Nonsense 1 11-02-2010 12:32 PM
Vegan Diet Benjamin R. Greene Nutrition 23 06-30-2010 08:10 AM
Paleo Man vs. Vegan Andrew Thompson Stuff and Nonsense 5 03-02-2010 05:26 PM
29 Year Old Vegan Dan Linehan Starting 6 12-21-2009 04:41 PM
From Strict vegan to Paleo... Alexander Kornishev Nutrition 1 02-17-2009 02:39 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.