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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 05-02-2005, 07:24 AM   #11
Dave Campbell
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Dan John has mentioned that the most important muscles are those that can be seen when you're walking away. Back, butt, etc. They are your power source. I would have to say that your hips and butt have as much to do with punching power as the back (and probably much more). Look at Tyson, Marciano, early Duran; those guys are thick through the lower body and they were one punch KO guys. Pat, you mentioned Tommy Hearns (I love that guy; win or lose, he came to fight); he was thin in the lower body. He power did seem to come from his back and his leverage.
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Old 05-02-2005, 07:08 PM   #12
Michael Keller
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I think the back is extremely important in punching and that kipping pull-ups add tremendously to this. Some of the hardest punchers I have ever trained with had well-developed backs/lats and relatively small arms and chest.
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:38 PM   #13
Richard Belloff
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No.

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Old 05-07-2005, 08:08 AM   #14
Sonia Ng
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Richard-you disagree that "kipping pull-ups" have carry-over to striking power?


What's your rationale? TIA.
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:11 AM   #15
Richard Belloff
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Here is my rationale.

The power in punching comes predom. from the rotation of the torso. This starts with the driving from the feet/legs and upwards through the torso.

The muscles in the back play a stabilizing function in most punching so having functional strength there during the punching action is useful but not of primary concern. Likewise, biceps strength is useful in hooking and uppercut punches but not primary. They carry the force largely, but do not originate it.

If one is to prioritize our work effort, I would put kipping pullups WAY down on the list of training efforts directed at improving punching. The focus in strength development for me would be in the legs and torso rotation with special emphasis on a smooth and quick transition of this force THROUGH the upper torso and extremities and onto the target.

In boxing, we see guys who are known as "arm punchers!" They look good, have no real power and get knocked out often.

Interesting!



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Old 05-08-2005, 08:28 AM   #16
bill fox
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Big difference between "arm punching" and "back punching". The back, erector spinea (sp), lats , traps et al transfer that rotational force from the waist through the shoulder.

I always felt like the makiwara was primarily a waist and lat drill - the fist along for the ride.
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:22 AM   #17
Graham Hayes
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I think the kipping pull up is useful for fisticuffs. A lot of the above discussion has missed the point, the question wasn't about how pulling strength or strong lats make better punchers or not. It was whether the use of the hips in kipping pull ups makes a better puncher.

Kipping pull ups done properly have an intense hip action in order to transfer the body over the bar. Also when done with a fast descent the falling energy is converted back to upward energy for the next pull up. Kipping pull ups are somewhat self-sustaining.

Both the core to extemity motor pattern and the efficient use of energy and body control show that this and similar athletic movements have great carryover to primal movements like punching.
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:58 PM   #18
Richard Belloff
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"Both the core to extemity motor pattern and the efficient use of energy and body control show that this and similar athletic movements have great carryover to primal movements like punching."

Based on what research or study? The core movement in kipping is not similar to the core movement in punching. One is an "up and over" move while the other is rotational in nature.

I am not saying that kipping is a bad exercise, in fact it is quite excellent. If I were needing to jump over walls etc, it would be a very high priority move.

However, as far as punching goes, I will stick to the heavy bag thanks!

Just my experience and opinion here, nothing more, nothing less.



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Old 05-08-2005, 04:06 PM   #19
Graham Hayes
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LOL, I'm not suggesting that you don't need to punch. Of course punching is better for punching. My point is that athletic movements carryover to all athletic movements otherwise fighters wouldn't significantly benefit from GPP, they could happily do SPP all the time.

Also saying "Based on what research or study?" is just silly. I spend my time training not reading sports "science" journals. Like you my knowledge is rooted in experience.
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Old 05-08-2005, 04:54 PM   #20
Richard Belloff
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"Like you my knowledge is rooted in experience."

Fair enough. I would suggest if you think the Kipping pullup is great training for punching, you do not have the requisite experience to comment on the subject.

To wit, can you cite even ONE world champion boxer or world class trainer who might suggest the kipping pullup belongs in a puncher's routine?

Just asking!
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