Will I lose or gain strength?

John de la Garza · 07-01-2004, 05:43 PM

I'm curious to see what's will happen. I used to bench 135 regularly. I can do at most 11 reps. I've stopped benching completly and am doing pushups. I can do about 20. I'm working up to 100 at once.

When I can do 100 or Oct 1, which ever comes first, I'm going to go back and see how many reps of 135 bench I can do.

Do you guys think I'll be doing more or less than my previous max reps of 11?

I'm curious to see what pushups will do for me.

Kevin Roddy · 07-01-2004, 06:31 PM

I have no idea, but I'm interested to see. I don't think it will have a HYOOGE effect, but it's an intriguing idea nonetheless.

John de la Garza · 07-01-2004, 08:41 PM

I'll post my results...

Scott Parker · 07-01-2004, 11:56 PM

for what it's worth i went a few months not even doing a bench press and just following the WOD and when i decided to give it a shot it had increased dramatically.

scott

Larry Lindenman · 07-02-2004, 04:38 AM

Prior to starting the WOD I benched 315 max. Now I bench about 280 max. I'm also 19 pounds lighter, could run a 5K in a decent time, sprint, do handstand pushups, and consistantly range in the top 10-20% of the WOD scores posted. It's all a matter of balance. I'm willing to sacrafice 35 lbs on the BP for greater all around "fitness".

Steve Shafley · 07-02-2004, 10:57 AM

It all depends what your bench is. Doing lots of push ups might be able to improve a 135 lb bench, but doing push ups, dips, muscle ups, etc...is probably not going to improve those with bigger benches unless it addresses a specific weakness in the movement.

In closing, making a big bench press isn't what CF is about.

John de la Garza · 07-02-2004, 12:10 PM

making a big bench press isn't what I'm trying to
do...

I don't think 135 for 11 reps is close to 'big'

Like my first post said, I'm just curious about what a bodyweight focused program will do for my current levels of stength.

I'm just choosing to expieriment by substituting pushups for bench, to get a general idea.

Ross Hunt · 07-03-2004, 06:02 AM

An example:

On 04/06/02, I deadlifted 285 - barely, for an ugly single. Yesterday, on 04/07/02, I deadlifted 285 for a double with very good form and went on to pull 300 for an ugly single. I wouldn't attribute my 15-pound increase to the back extension workout of 04/06/05 or the kettlebell swing and ergometer row workout of 04/06/20, although these WODs may have increased my GPP in a way that had some INDIRECT carryover to max strength.
However, in the month between these two WODs, I performed four max lift workouts (overhead squat, jerk, snatch, and back squat) plus a whole slew of medium intensity pulling work in a difficult context, including two deadlift workouts (the couplet of 04/06/14 and Diane).

Also, glancing back over the WODs, the month in between these two months looks suspiciously like CNS training and taper for the max deadlift: Heavy CNS training building in impact through the first three weeks to a back squat workout, a week of low-intensity pulling in a context that demands speed and skill (Grace, Diane, Elizabeth) and then five days without CNS load before the peak.

I hope this long post points towards how CrossFit manages to significantly improve max lift performance without constant training of lifts. If I can gain 15 pounds on my deadlift every month, that's more than good enough for me.

Larry Lindenman · 07-03-2004, 07:19 AM

Ross, great post, great observations.

Brian Hand · 07-05-2004, 06:45 AM

John, I have only benched once since Christmas, I have been doing ring pushups and ring dips since then. My main concern was to address some shoulder issues that I think were due in part to doing all my heavy pressing with my shoulderblades pinned to a bench, inhibiting natural movement.

I tested myself in March and found I was just a little off a recent (Nov.) personal best in dumbbell incline press. With a couple weeks to practice I am sure I could match or beat the previous best. I would say I maintained strength while markedly improving my flexibility and stabilization.

At your level, I'd say you might see an immediate gain if you tested your bench at that time, and you'll almost certainly see a big gain if you went back to benching for a couple weeks.

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07-01-2004, 05:43 PM	#1
John de la Garza Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Garden Grove ca Posts: 212	I'm curious to see what's will happen. I used to bench 135 regularly. I can do at most 11 reps. I've stopped benching completly and am doing pushups. I can do about 20. I'm working up to 100 at once. When I can do 100 or Oct 1, which ever comes first, I'm going to go back and see how many reps of 135 bench I can do. Do you guys think I'll be doing more or less than my previous max reps of 11? I'm curious to see what pushups will do for me.

07-01-2004, 06:31 PM	#2
Kevin Roddy Member Profile: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Harrison TWP Michigan Posts: 769	I have no idea, but I'm interested to see. I don't think it will have a HYOOGE effect, but it's an intriguing idea nonetheless.

07-01-2004, 08:41 PM	#3
John de la Garza Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Garden Grove ca Posts: 212	I'll post my results...

07-01-2004, 11:56 PM	#4
Scott Parker Member Profile: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Denver CO Posts: 489	for what it's worth i went a few months not even doing a bench press and just following the WOD and when i decided to give it a shot it had increased dramatically. scott

07-02-2004, 04:38 AM	#5
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	Prior to starting the WOD I benched 315 max. Now I bench about 280 max. I'm also 19 pounds lighter, could run a 5K in a decent time, sprint, do handstand pushups, and consistantly range in the top 10-20% of the WOD scores posted. It's all a matter of balance. I'm willing to sacrafice 35 lbs on the BP for greater all around "fitness".

07-02-2004, 10:57 AM	#6
Steve Shafley Banned Profile: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Saginaw MI Posts: 508	It all depends what your bench is. Doing lots of push ups might be able to improve a 135 lb bench, but doing push ups, dips, muscle ups, etc...is probably not going to improve those with bigger benches unless it addresses a specific weakness in the movement. In closing, making a big bench press isn't what CF is about.

07-02-2004, 12:10 PM	#7
John de la Garza Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Garden Grove ca Posts: 212	making a big bench press isn't what I'm trying to do... I don't think 135 for 11 reps is close to 'big' Like my first post said, I'm just curious about what a bodyweight focused program will do for my current levels of stength. I'm just choosing to expieriment by substituting pushups for bench, to get a general idea.

07-03-2004, 06:02 AM	#8
Ross Hunt Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Annapolis MD Posts: 914	An example: On 04/06/02, I deadlifted 285 - barely, for an ugly single. Yesterday, on 04/07/02, I deadlifted 285 for a double with very good form and went on to pull 300 for an ugly single. I wouldn't attribute my 15-pound increase to the back extension workout of 04/06/05 or the kettlebell swing and ergometer row workout of 04/06/20, although these WODs may have increased my GPP in a way that had some INDIRECT carryover to max strength. However, in the month between these two WODs, I performed four max lift workouts (overhead squat, jerk, snatch, and back squat) plus a whole slew of medium intensity pulling work in a difficult context, including two deadlift workouts (the couplet of 04/06/14 and Diane). Also, glancing back over the WODs, the month in between these two months looks suspiciously like CNS training and taper for the max deadlift: Heavy CNS training building in impact through the first three weeks to a back squat workout, a week of low-intensity pulling in a context that demands speed and skill (Grace, Diane, Elizabeth) and then five days without CNS load before the peak. I hope this long post points towards how CrossFit manages to significantly improve max lift performance without constant training of lifts. If I can gain 15 pounds on my deadlift every month, that's more than good enough for me.

07-03-2004, 07:19 AM	#9
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	Ross, great post, great observations.

07-05-2004, 06:45 AM	#10
Brian Hand Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 633	John, I have only benched once since Christmas, I have been doing ring pushups and ring dips since then. My main concern was to address some shoulder issues that I think were due in part to doing all my heavy pressing with my shoulderblades pinned to a bench, inhibiting natural movement. I tested myself in March and found I was just a little off a recent (Nov.) personal best in dumbbell incline press. With a couple weeks to practice I am sure I could match or beat the previous best. I would say I maintained strength while markedly improving my flexibility and stabilization. At your level, I'd say you might see an immediate gain if you tested your bench at that time, and you'll almost certainly see a big gain if you went back to benching for a couple weeks.