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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-21-2010, 06:26 PM   #101
Jared Ashley
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post

And they don't do LSD. A 5K isn't LSD, LSD is a training technique, if they're racing competitively, in any distance, they are putting out intensely.

So I don't agree with much except for the perceived spirit of your post.
this is really important. Anyone who thinks a 2:30 marathon is "long slow distance" is an idiot. it's long FAST distance! That's 26.2 consecutive 5:45 miles. I'm a mid-level CF'er and I can't run ONE 5:45 mile! (best is 6:02).

Same for 5K... some of those guys are posting sub-15 or even sub-13 minute times. that's fast as hell, and uber-intense (like, about as intense as say, FGB).

Not saying the marathon is the end-all and be-all of fitness, but let's be fair to the sport. those guys are ATHLETES.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:41 PM   #102
John Hansen
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
Let's not go here again please.
I suppose when folks quit asserting that the Crossfit games produced the world's fittest man and woman then we can stop going there.
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:26 PM   #103
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
I'm not talking about powerlifting level strength. Or even weightlifter. I'm talking about the strength necessary to perform the named workouts as RX'd. I don't think thats an incredibly high level of strength.

I also mentioned programs that include a metcon as opposed to 5X5 or Starting strength. I don't think you need to do nothing but strength to get to this level, but you do need to focus on it.

If you can't pull one guy on to the boat, no amount of endurance will help.
Dude, this is right on. I thought the WODs alone would get me stronger. They did...because I was new and had never picked up a barbell. But, our pre-WOD strength work was pretty hit or miss in terms of MY goals. So, I started CFSB last month. I'm ONLY doing deadlift because it's an extra day/session in addition to my regular strength work/WOD at my affiiate (I can't do my own thing for pre-WOD strength), and I don't want to overtrain.

My deadlift 3RM was 162 on December 23. My deadlift 3RM today was 190. That's 28 lbs in less than a month...17%.

And, it translates directly to my WODs. I competed in the Carolina CrossFit Challenge in early December, and one of the WODs had 45 deads at 155 lbs. My 5RM was only 153 lbs at the time. I timed out after 30 deads. In contrast, the Garage Games in two weeks has a WOD with 20 deads at 135 lbs. That would have been a struggle last month. I can knock those out pretty damn fast at this point.

So, yeah, I'm a pretty big fan of a targeted strength program in addition to metcons. Back squat is next...
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:31 PM   #104
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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I suppose when folks quit asserting that the Crossfit games produced the world's fittest man and woman then we can stop going there.
I suppose when someone else comes up with a test for broad, general, and inclusive fitness that betters the Games, we'll stop.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:41 PM   #105
Adam Acosta
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Jared Ashley View Post
this is really important. Anyone who thinks a 2:30 marathon is "long slow distance" is an idiot. it's long FAST distance! That's 26.2 consecutive 5:45 miles. I'm a mid-level CF'er and I can't run ONE 5:45 mile! (best is 6:02).

Same for 5K... some of those guys are posting sub-15 or even sub-13 minute times. that's fast as hell, and uber-intense (like, about as intense as say, FGB).

Not saying the marathon is the end-all and be-all of fitness, but let's be fair to the sport. those guys are ATHLETES.
I've posted this before on here, but James Fitzgerald, the first winner of the Games, posted a video of a sub 7:00 Helen in which he runs his first 400 split in 77 seconds. In contrast, when Haile Gebrselassie set the world record in the marathon, he averaged about 70 seconds per 400 split. That's an incredible feat going largely unrecognized by people that think the ability to run really fast for really long distances is "nonfunctional." The funny thing is, he developed his strange running style because he used to run ten miles to school and back every day carrying his books in his right arm.
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:47 AM   #106
Sam Walker
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
No one is ignoring you. They are answering your question
and yet, in the very same post...
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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
There was 1 page of additional discussion as I typed this at work, so I appologize for any redundancies.
That slightly undermines your "therefore":
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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
Therefore you are either a) not doing a good job of explaining your point; b) chosing to ignore them because it doesn't match your beliefs, or c) you don't understand your own question.
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A 500 lbs deadlift does not have an "arbitrary" binary aspect...

In terms of completion, the marathon also has a binary aspect. If you can cover 26.2 miles under your own power, then you get a 1. If this is the case, then both athletes will be given a DNF for 1 of 2 events. Which is why it is pointless to have a 2-event test with 2 completely-polar specialist athletes.
You are utterly failing to grasp the point which others have managed to understand. There have been complaints that a 1 Rep Max deadlift cannot be compared to lifting the same weight in smaller loads. You yourself state "Anything else, and you are changing the test". This is not contested. The point is, rather than have a "Lift X lbs in a short a time as possible" event, which would have been won by someone who could lift it in one go, but allowed weaker competitors to complete the task in a slower time, "lift 500lbs in one deadlift" is a pass/fail test. The marathon can be made similarly pass/fail with the introduction of a time limit.

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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
Right. And the point was to get the LOWEST score. So if you ADDED points to other competitors, then there would've been an even larger gap between them and 1st place..
The points issue started from comments that Mikko Salo "didn't do very well" in the Deadlift competition and yet still won overall. This was offered as proof the Games weren't biased towards strength. If you go back over the posts you'll see my point was that in that event Mikko was penalised by the 505lb cap that gave 16 other competitors 1 point (thereby removing 135 points from his direct competitors and creating a massive gap in the results of that event unlike in the format of any other event in the Games.

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The point of the IWCABTAMD is that we strive to do just that, increase work capacity across broad time and modal domains. We are not talking about specialization here. Someone who can race a 100 mile race yet can't bench press bodyweight, can't carry a 185-lbs dummy 100 meters, etc... is not as fit as someone who CAN do those things and can complete a 100 mile run.
Look. I agree, by-and-large. My point is that this bias towards shorter duration events isn't reflected in the definition. Also, there needs to be a time cap on that 100 mile run. I complete 100 mile runs all the time, as the walking on my commute notches up the miles. When the LSD athletes ask me about CrossFit, please don't make me point to my commute as "evidence" for CrossFit's claims.

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
We also run/row reasonably fast.
Then, in Greg Glassman's own words, "Prove it".
What? Do I have to race you? You win.
No! I meant if Crossfitters do LSD well then we should prove it, like our mantra stipulates.
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:51 AM   #107
Thomas Legge
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Chris Gedicks View Post
I suppose when someone else comes up with a test for broad, general, and inclusive fitness that betters the Games, we'll stop.
The last games consisted of running, lifting, and barbell/bodyweight metcons. The only exception was event 4. This is standard training for rugby union/league teams, and believe Aussie rules was mentioned when this was discussed before. Owing to the nature of their sport I would imagine that the training is very similar.
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Old 01-22-2010, 06:44 AM   #108
Dave Hardy
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

Out of interest, how long do people here think it would take to develop a 500 lb dead lift? Going off own experience or that of colleagues? Assuming starting from scratch. (I wouldn't know, I'm only lifting a little over 300!)
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Old 01-22-2010, 06:49 AM   #109
Jason Scheffler
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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I suppose when folks quit asserting that the Crossfit games produced the world's fittest man and woman then we can stop going there.
Oh I know I shouldn't go there but why should they quit asseting that? Baseball is two countries but they're the world champions, what do the winners of the NHL, NBA etc get to be called? If they can be called world champions when it's only two countries playing why can't CrossFit say they produce the worlds fittest?
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Old 01-22-2010, 06:55 AM   #110
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Jason Scheffler View Post
Oh I know I shouldn't go there but why should they quit asseting that? Baseball is two countries but they're the world champions, what do the winners of the NHL, NBA etc get to be called? If they can be called world champions when it's only two countries playing why can't CrossFit say they produce the worlds fittest?
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