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Old 07-02-2013, 11:01 AM   #1
Matthew Vesey
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How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

Was not sure whether or not I should post this in Injuries or Exercise section. In the injury section I had a post talking about having Disc herniation's in L4/L5, L5/S1. I am looking for some brainstorming from various people as to opinions on how I (or others with a similar situation) can prevent strength loss in the legs as much as possible. It is vain but the thought of losing the Squat numbers is a mental blow. I am able to do overhead work (Push Press, Jerks, Strict Press, HSPU, etc), and body weight movements with 0 aggravation in the Lumbar and Sacral areas of the spine. The movements I can't do at all are exercises that involve squatting with weights or picking things up (I.e: Squats and deadlift movement patterns).

I was thinking that exercises that could be done to help maintain strength are Prowler Pushes and heavy sled pulls to keep strength? Anyone else have any other ideas that would be sufficient?

I think this would be a useful topic to other people that have similar symptoms which is why I am looking for all types of brainstorming from the community.

Regards,
-Matt
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:21 AM   #2
Brendan McNamar
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

Reverse hyper

Glut ham raises

Leg press

Globo gym leg machines will allow you to do a lot of leg work. Not as good as a barbell but a whole lot better then nothing.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:50 PM   #3
Andrew Wiemken
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

First of all, be wary of any responses you get from random forum members. I trust you have a physical therapist/doctor. Listen to what they have to say, do your research, and be smart. Definitely don't get neurotic and go heavy just because you feel the need to. I feel for you dude, that sucks and I would hate to undo my Squat work, but it is what it is and you need to handle it in a cool, calculated manner.

The above response was off-the-cuff. Reverse Hypers and Leg Presses could easily f**k you up if you don't respect them. I understand they take much of the load off the spine, but for someone who just said he couldn't do Squat/Deadlift movement patterns, they are iffy calls.

My suggestions:
- If you can do Jerks and other overhead work with no problems, then I suppose Drags/Pushes are a good call. They strike me as risky, but then so does Jerking with a slipped disc.
- If you're able to do bodyweight Pistols and Single-Leg RDL's safely, then you will be *shocked* at how effective they are at maintaining a very respectable level of baseline leg/hip strength. Do them frequently and master them if your back is ok with them.
- HILL SPRINTS are among the best of all exercises, develop great leg power, evenly develop the hams, glutes, quads, and calves, and you should be doing them anyway. The steeper the hill is, the more of a strength/power exercise they become.

Again, be smart, don't go heavy because of emotion, and really consider your situation.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:03 AM   #4
Brendan McNamar
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiemken View Post
The above response was off-the-cuff.
Matt is a super strong lifter under medical care. While I did not spell it out, because I didn't think I need to for Matt, my suggestions are places for him to investigate. If you have read the other threads Matt has posted on this situations you would know he is intelligent and careful about what he undertakes.

While Matt will have to figure out the details everything, what I suggested doesn't involve much horizontal compression of the spine or sheer forces on the spine which sounds like the problematic issues.

As someone who struggles with back issues it is a situation I'm familiar with. The suggestions are not off-the-cuff.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:21 AM   #5
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

attach weight to a belt and squat, or walk around.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:39 AM   #6
Matthew Vesey
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiemken View Post
First of all, be wary of any responses you get from random forum members. I trust you have a physical therapist/doctor. Listen to what they have to say, do your research, and be smart. Definitely don't get neurotic and go heavy just because you feel the need to. I feel for you dude, that sucks and I would hate to undo my Squat work, but it is what it is and you need to handle it in a cool, calculated manner.

The above response was off-the-cuff. Reverse Hypers and Leg Presses could easily f**k you up if you don't respect them. I understand they take much of the load off the spine, but for someone who just said he couldn't do Squat/Deadlift movement patterns, they are iffy calls.

My suggestions:
- If you can do Jerks and other overhead work with no problems, then I suppose Drags/Pushes are a good call. They strike me as risky, but then so does Jerking with a slipped disc.
- If you're able to do bodyweight Pistols and Single-Leg RDL's safely, then you will be *shocked* at how effective they are at maintaining a very respectable level of baseline leg/hip strength. Do them frequently and master them if your back is ok with them.
- HILL SPRINTS are among the best of all exercises, develop great leg power, evenly develop the hams, glutes, quads, and calves, and you should be doing them anyway. The steeper the hill is, the more of a strength/power exercise they become.

Again, be smart, don't go heavy because of emotion, and really consider your situation.
Thanks for the reply. In response to being weary of forum advice, I like to think I know a respectful amount about physiology, the body (and my body) and feel that I can tell good advice from advice that is not well thought out. From the various posts I have seen over my time on the forums, I have seen several members of the community provide excellent advice to others who have a solid understanding of rehabilitative practices, exercise physiology, etc. In this case, Brendan is one of the names that I frequently have associated with the positive characteristics that I have listed above. As a result, I trust the response. I took his suggestions to my question as "possible avenues to explore" and not a "you need to do these exercises" type of advice.

Referencing my injury:
The injury is weird as Reverse Hypers are a bit iffy for me, as are Pistols (if the non-squatting leg is completely straight out front). I tend to be skeptical with some advice from the Physio therapists here (in Ottawa) as they tend to spout off things that are taken directly from a text book without doing any real investigation on my injury. They seem to treat every person's injury the same.

The cookie cutter physio care that I have always received from various PT's here in Ottawa has frequently fallen under two scenarios.
Scenario #1: "Do a back extension, touch your toes- Oh you can do that? you are fine you must just have a weak core. You should be more physically active in order to build that core". This never sits right with me as it blatantly shows that they are given a script and are not explained how to change that script when someone comes in that is quite athletic, etc.

Scenario #2: "Lay on the bed I am going to use Ultrasound and IMS on your back and tell you to come back for the same thing for the next 3 months. Also, do not do anything physical at all. Just stay on bed rest". This one is also a bad scenario for me because the days that I am moving around and being physically active (not doing exercises aggravating the injury but working the rest of the body), I have much less pain than when I take a full day off.

It sounds a little disrespectful to talk this way, but I am able to tell what university they are from based on how they carry out the care. I have done more for my own recovery by listening to my body, staying active and following the brilliant advice from Kelly Starrett as well as some excellent advice from a handful of members on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan McNamar View Post
Matt is a super strong lifter under medical care. While I did not spell it out, because I didn't think I need to for Matt, my suggestions are places for him to investigate. If you have read the other threads Matt has posted on this situations you would know he is intelligent and careful about what he undertakes.

While Matt will have to figure out the details everything, what I suggested doesn't involve much horizontal compression of the spine or sheer forces on the spine which sounds like the problematic issues.

As someone who struggles with back issues it is a situation I'm familiar with. The suggestions are not off-the-cuff.
Appreciate the responses. I did not mean to cause any rifts, I was looking for brainstorming options which have been provided for sure by both of you.

Thanks a lot,

-Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Vesey : 07-04-2013 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:39 PM   #7
Andrew Wiemken
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

Fair enough Brendan, I definitely was not assuming you knew the guy. It also changes it a lot if he's already highly developed. I.e pistols may be a joke in that case etc. I'm just wary of people asking about very sensitive stuff like this and taking advice lightly. Meant no disrespect whatsoever, it was just a brief answer to a huge issue and clearly out of context I did not get the proper picture.

Best of luck/progress with the injury

Edit - yeah, I don't 100% love telling people to listen to te physio/PT/ortho. They clearly are helpful and a necessary resource in a situatuon like yours, but we all lament that these are the people who tell you not to break parallel - and tell a guy who squats his d**k of all the time and trains Weightlifting that he has a "weak core", which is absurd. Medical science has a long way to go, to mitigate the shortcomings that myopic studies designed by non-lifters suffer from.

Last edited by Andrew Wiemken : 07-05-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:54 PM   #8
Frank E Morel
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

I have to say the reverse hyper. Louie's invention for ppl to rehab their back post surgery.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:18 PM   #9
Sean M Hutchinson
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Vesey View Post
Was not sure whether or not I should post this in Injuries or Exercise section. In the injury section I had a post talking about having Disc herniation's in L4/L5, L5/S1. I am looking for some brainstorming from various people as to opinions on how I (or others with a similar situation) can prevent strength loss in the legs as much as possible. It is vain but the thought of losing the Squat numbers is a mental blow. I am able to do overhead work (Push Press, Jerks, Strict Press, HSPU, etc), and body weight movements with 0 aggravation in the Lumbar and Sacral areas of the spine. The movements I can't do at all are exercises that involve squatting with weights or picking things up (I.e: Squats and deadlift movement patterns).

I was thinking that exercises that could be done to help maintain strength are Prowler Pushes and heavy sled pulls to keep strength? Anyone else have any other ideas that would be sufficient?

I think this would be a useful topic to other people that have similar symptoms which is why I am looking for all types of brainstorming from the community.

Regards,
-Matt
belt squats...not sure how to describe these. Basically you use a dip belt and a collar with a hook on it that can hold plates. You position it between a couple blocks (jerk blocks work well) then you can squat with the belt around your waist instead of loading up the spine by putting the bar on your back.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:40 AM   #10
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: How can I decrease strength loss in the legs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMLs1sz7EWc wfs
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