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Old 01-23-2012, 10:13 AM   #1
Adam Fisk
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PWO yes or no

Hey all,

Basically I am concerned on whether or not I should be consuming a pwo whey supplement or solely rely on natural whole foods. Obviously I would love to stay on the whole foods route for paleo purposes, but I keep hearing how import pwo nutrition is and how pwo shakes are the best for it.

I do CF 5 days a week Mon-Thrus and Sat around 3-4 metcons and 1-2 strength days a week. I am ~175lbs hovering around what I'd say is 16/17%BF (never tested).

I am looking to get in the 10 and under range for BF but I feel the shake may also be adding in unecessary extra calories. I am happy with my muscle mass and want to reiterate that I want to lean up

Typical day:
BF
3-4 whole eggs w/ ~1tbsp olive oil
1 chicken sausage link
1 slice beef bacon
2-3 blocks of fruit (berries, apples oranges)

Lunch
3 slices of applegate turkey deli meat in a lettuce wrap
1 can of tuna
some guacamole (homemade) in the wrap
~ 3 cups steamed broccoli and cauliflower

CF 7-8 would do PWO immediately after
Brand:Proto whey
20g per scoop
Maltodextrin
4 scoops is like 52g so I would prob do less than half that if I were to.

Dinner
1 large chicken breast or some fatty beef (grilled)
1 5" sweet potato
Some steamed veggies
Some guacamole (homemade) or lame TJ's coconut milk

Typically my dinner would be about an hour after my workout maybe I would consume a piece of fruit or two during prep time.

Thanks,

Adam
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:25 PM   #2
Eric Montgomery
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Re: PWO yes or no

How long have you been training and what does your training look like? How tall are you? What are some of your lift numbers? It's very likely you don't need to lose any weight, you just need to swap some fat for muscle. More calories and smart training will help in that effort.

It's very unlikely that 200-300 calories (20g protein plus 50g malto is only 280 calories) in a PWO shake are what's keeping you from getting lean. The benefits of getting those nutrients into your muscles right immediately outweigh any downsides you may be thinking of.

Whole foods are obviously preferable but shakes offer convenience and are usually easier to stomach after a workout.
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:04 PM   #3
Adam Fisk
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Re: PWO yes or no

Eric thanks for the post,

I was hoping to get some of your insight on this topic.

I had made a post recently regarding another issue. I had included more info in that one so I'll just copy it over.

22y/o male 5' 10" ~175lbs ~15% bodyfat (assumption)

I had been lifting weights cosmetically for 6 years prior to crossfit (was a video gamer fatty [~210#'s 0#'s LBM lol]). I obviously saw strength gains but was nowhere near the athletic performance I am capable of today. My major lifts leave much to be desired but I have been seeing improvements and know I will continue to.

I have been CFing for about 4 months and I'm trying to get my diet in tune. I push myself at least 90% for every workout. I'll do some running and rowing on off days if I'm up for it and feeling strong.

Squat: 225 (very sad but making strides)
Strict Press: 125 (very weak shoulders with minor rotator cuff injury)
DL: 335 (not awful but I am capable of more)

Fran first and only attempt:7:45
Kelly first and only attempt: 28:40
Nicole first and only attmept: 113 pullups

Have done too many girls warheros yet.

I feel like I already have a decent amount of lean body mass so my initial concern with adding the protein to my diet is getting any larger muscularly. Im just looking to maintain while trimming fat.

I also had a question about the amount of malto. Would 50g be a lot? I have been known to have a poor diet in the past (sweet tooth) and have concerns with insulin spikes and diabetes. Will the additional malto have any effect on that?

Thanks again.

Adam

Last edited by Adam Fisk; 01-23-2012 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:55 PM   #4
Eric Montgomery
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Re: PWO yes or no

Eh, no you don't really have that much lean body mass--the fact that you say you look soft at 5'10" and 175lbs with an estimated 15% BF means your lean body mass is relatively low. Contrast that with how you'd look and perform if you were 180lbs with 10% BF....option 1 means you'd have 149lbs of LBM, option 2 means you'd have 162lbs of LBM. Quite a difference there. Even if you wanted to stay at the same bodyweight while cutting your bodyfat down to 10%, you'd have to put on some lean body mass. So I don't know why you'd be opposed to adding muscle.

I would just keep doing what you're doing for awhile and embrace the strength gains, keep eating enough to maintain or add a little weight, and reevaluate after a few more months. If you keep getting stronger and faster your body composition will almost definitely move in the right direction.

The maltodextrin will give you an insulin spike but that's the entire point of taking in carbs with protein in a PWO mix. No, it's not going to through your metabolism or insulin sensitivity out of whack as long as you're eating good throughout the rest of the day. 50g is not too much.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:46 PM   #5
Adam Fisk
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Re: PWO yes or no

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
Eh, no you don't really have that much lean body mass--the fact that you say you look soft at 5'10" and 175lbs with an estimated 15% BF means your lean body mass is relatively low. Contrast that with how you'd look and perform if you were 180lbs with 10% BF....option 1 means you'd have 149lbs of LBM, option 2 means you'd have 162lbs of LBM. Quite a difference there. Even if you wanted to stay at the same bodyweight while cutting your bodyfat down to 10%, you'd have to put on some lean body mass. So I don't know why you'd be opposed to adding muscle.

I would just keep doing what you're doing for awhile and embrace the strength gains, keep eating enough to maintain or add a little weight, and reevaluate after a few more months. If you keep getting stronger and faster your body composition will almost definitely move in the right direction.

The maltodextrin will give you an insulin spike but that's the entire point of taking in carbs with protein in a PWO mix. No, it's not going to through your metabolism or insulin sensitivity out of whack as long as you're eating good throughout the rest of the day. 50g is not too much.
Thanks Eric. I have definitely gotten stronger and faster. I guess all thats left now is to stay consistent with it for a few months and see where I'm at. Unfortunately that is the hardest part.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:34 AM   #6
Adam Fisk
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Re: PWO yes or no

Eric I have another question,

Should I lose the sweet potato at dinner if I'm doing the PWO shake with malto? They essentially provide the same thing correct? It would seem to me that it would be overdose.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #7
Adam Castagno
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Re: PWO yes or no

I would lose it, unless your trying to bulk up a little more, but from what I briefly read over, seems like your looking to lighten up. I would keep the Sweet potato for immed. after a workout if you were going the whole food route.

Due to the simplicity of it, and convenience I would stick with a whey PWO. Today's shakes are engineered to be packed with AA's that you would not be getting completely in any old food.

If you want, try making a smoothy out of your PWO shakes, I like to add ice, frozen fruit (mostly frozen wild blueberry's since I find them the cheapest) my whey and 10oz milk... some people will argue about whether to take milk PWO especially whole as I do, due to fat content, and absorption... I haven't found it to be a problem... Also if anyone whines about milk not being paleo, well neither is whey powder.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:40 PM   #8
Eric Montgomery
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Re: PWO yes or no

I wouldn't worry too much about it--you're getting minimal carbs throughout the day aside from your PWO mix, so a half a sweet potato for dinner isn't going to hurt.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:03 PM   #9
Adam Fisk
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Re: PWO yes or no

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
I wouldn't worry too much about it--you're getting minimal carbs throughout the day aside from your PWO mix, so a half a sweet potato for dinner isn't going to hurt.
Yeah that's a good point. In my opinion its much more filling than a **** load of veggies.

Thanks again.
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