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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 02-19-2010, 05:13 PM   #231
Justin Z. Smith
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Why? Bill Belichick's bio lists NO playing experience in ANY sport above the high school level. His degree is in economics, not a fitness-related field. Is anyone here going to claim that he's not an elite coach?

Katherine
From http://www.allthingsbillbelichick.com/bio.htm (safe for work, family, etc.)

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Belichick lettered in football, lacrosse and squash while attending college at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Conn. He earned three letters in football while competing at center and tight end. As a senior, he was named captain of his lacrosse team. He was inducted into the Wesleyan University Athletics Hall of Fame as part of its inaugural class in 2008.

But if he didn't have any football experience, Belichick is probably not claiming football is infinitely scalable so that things can be modified so anyone can do it.

So instead of asking why, how about why not? Shouldn't we all get the benefits of exercise? Why the excuses for a no excuses workout?

Justin
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:46 AM   #232
Adam Acosta
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Justin Z. Smith View Post
It is more about a coach working out at all, any video, etc., than a coach being an elite firebreather, especially with the program being advertised as infinitely scalable, and having folks like Kyle Maynard do the workout.

I'm not asking Pat Riley to slam dunk here, just step on the court and make a layup.

Justin
I don't necessarily disagree with that. Personally, I don't really care if my coach is wheelchair bound so long as he's a good coach. My point, however, is that I don't consider Glassman to be my coach at all. I've never met the guy, never watched a video of him coaching, and never read anything coaching-related written by him. The coaching videos and articles that I've learned from have all been by subject matter experts and face-to-face coaching has been by people I actually work out with. If Greg Glassman was mythical like the Wizard of Oz, I wouldn't care.
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:16 AM   #233
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
Therefore, your assertion that "measuring output is useless" appears to be incorrect. You can (and should) measure the power output of everything that you do and increases in power output within that particular time and modal domain indicate an increase in fitness. And that meshes nicely with IWCABTAMD. We are not looking for ONLY the highest power output possible for any given time domain, but the highest power output possible for any given time AND modal domain.
- Alex
While power output has its place, especially in conditioning, there are other areas where I would not recommend its application. Consider the challenge of doing the slowest possible, strict (no kipping, piking of any sort) muscle up. Obviously the slower you can do this feat, the better. According to the power definition, kipping your way up (however ridiculous the kip, see recent 30 muscle ups videos) is better for fitness. Getting caught up with power can easily lead to silly conclusions. Sometimes, there is no need to rush.
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:12 PM   #234
Alex Europa
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

You're absolutely right. I was a bit overzealous with my "everything" comment. Clearly there are many movements that measuring power either does not apply or is not appropriate. This is not to say that work capacity still can't be measured. To use the example of strict pull-ups, an increase in max number would indicate an increased work capacity for that particular domain. Another example would be front/back levers or other static holds: an increase in time in a hold/position indicates an increased work capacity in that domain.

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Old 02-24-2010, 02:17 AM   #235
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
You're absolutely right. I was a bit overzealous with my "everything" comment. Clearly there are many movements that measuring power either does not apply or is not appropriate. This is not to say that work capacity still can't be measured. To use the example of strict pull-ups, an increase in max number would indicate an increased work capacity for that particular domain. Another example would be front/back levers or other static holds: an increase in time in a hold/position indicates an increased work capacity in that domain.

- Alex
HEHEHE, if you are doing a true static hold, your center of mass doesn't move so no work is being done, so no increase in work capacity
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Old 02-24-2010, 07:22 AM   #236
Greg Privitera
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

Dimitri, if you're not kidding, doesn't that seem a bit silly to you?

Muscle fibers are either firing or not.

And in a static hold, they are. They are still producing force, and the "work" they are doing is negating any movement that would otherwise occur.
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Old 02-24-2010, 07:36 AM   #237
Shane Skowron
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Greg Privitera View Post
And in a static hold, they are. They are still producing force, and the "work" they are doing is negating any movement that would otherwise occur.
Physics fail. I can apply force to a 500# bar but if I don't lift it, I didn't do any work.

You don't measure work based on movement that would otherwise occur. You can measure that with potential energy. You measure work based on actual movement.

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doesn't that seem a bit silly to you?
Why doesn't it seem silly that everything around here is defined in terms of work output, when so many things cannot be measured in this way?
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Old 02-24-2010, 07:39 AM   #238
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Greg Privitera View Post
Dimitri, if you're not kidding, doesn't that seem a bit silly to you?

Muscle fibers are either firing or not.

And in a static hold, they are. They are still producing force, and the "work" they are doing is negating any movement that would otherwise occur.
Well, I was kidding, hence the HEHEHE and the

But if you want to get very technical, I think integrating force production with respect to time (impulse) makes more sense to "measure" (I feel silly even typing this, who would ever calculate the force their muscles exert during a body lever) in this particular exercise. Work depends on the distance travelled. If you are pushing against a wall, unless you are Hercules and actually move the wall, no matter how hard you try, sadly you aren't doing any work.

I do understand the desire to be all "work capacity," however, if it comes down to "am I doing what I tried to do last month, better this month?" then, for that, physics is not needed.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:43 AM   #239
Greg Privitera
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

Shane, I quoted "work", I know what the physics definition is.

And yes, that does seem silly.
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:12 AM   #240
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

But shane, you forgot chemical work, chemicals going from a high energy state to a low energy state. THis is why this reliance on work, force, power etc ****es me off. It's fine as a first approximation, but it breaks down quickly after that, that coupled with people who have no formal training in phsyics or mechanics that have no idea of the practical limitation of the formulas they are using.
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